Pretty much this. lol, you guys are having the exact same argument as your SFV/TR thread. You both agree exclusive deals hurt IPs. I agree with you that TR is better off because it will still sell millions on PS4. SfV on the other hand, V caused some real damage to the IP. Mostly because the game itself was shitty, but based in what Capcom was saying about SFV before the deal was announced, one can logically assume the exclusive deal is partly why the game was rushed out and thus partly responsible.

When the next TR launches, people won't give a shit about ROTR being timed exclusive. But when SFVI launches people will remember how bare bones V was and how meh the online servers and netcode were.

I can see your point puggers even if you exaggerate with the "millions of X1 fans" part. In fact it's now hard to tell which franchise is damaged more but my feeling is that the Tomb Raider franchise will be damaged more from being exclusive. The SF franchise also took a big hit but the main reason was the botched launch. Of course being exclusive will hurt SF but to what extent is unknown and we will probably never know. All in all, both franchises were  damaged to some degree but we can all speculate and give our opinions. It's good to get decent opinions from both sides.

When TR launches this holiday we will have a better idea how much TR was damaged by being timed. If nobody forks out from a promotional campaign I can see this doing worse than the XB1 version.

Yep, RoTTR will not sell 'millions' on PS4, maybe eventually technically millions will be out there thanks to a combo of dropping to $20 and less rapidly, and being given away with PS+, but it's going to launch even worse than it did on X1.

The numbers will be so bad that it's unlikely that any future TR titles will get a AAA budget.

As for SFV, that's a failure in a completely different way. The lack of content, story, and general lack of polish added up to a mediocre to poor product for anyone but the most die-hard competitive SF players (and let's face it, the FGC community is tiny to the point of near irrelevance at best in the big picture).

Given equal ground, let's say both SFV and TR2015 both launched at 90+ metacritic games on all platforms with no exclusivity BS. TR would have sold at least double SFV if not more. Fighting games are niche, that's just reality. So for a fighting game to have a chance at decent sales, it's gotta snag a decent number of casual players who don't care or aren't focused on online competitive play. To do that, you need polish, a good/fun story, the multiple endings/good animation, etc. SFV had none of that.

There's a lot of blame to go around, both TR and SF have been disastrously mismanaged. But that's where the comparison really ends. RoTTR's two key failures were excluding the leading platform for the franchise and releasing at an absolutely worst-case date. (an issue they are hilariously repeating with PS4 RoTTR being sent to die this holiday season). SFV's failure is entirely due to being a bad/mediocre game for anyone but the tiny diehard fans, which is not enough to make it any reasonable success.

Apples/oranges, but both are moldy and terribly damaged franchises now. Failures.

Lol read the thread before jumping into the middle of a debate.  

He was pretending that the ip wasn't damaged earlier (probably just for the sake of disagreeing with me)  and moved the goalposts by bringing SFV into it.  

He's since agreed that the ip is damaged by the exclusivity move but he's trying to continue the argument on a tangent (SFV). 

He's gone around in circles.  I've stayed consistent.  

I don't care about your opinion regarding who is moving what goal posts or who has remained consistent, simply commenting on the post I quoted :)

Over time its not crazy to presume millions of people would have played it on X1. Whether it be on the used market, digital downloads for a few dollars, perhaps GwG, etc.

RotTR alread has like 55K pre orders in the US with no hype. I think the potential for a bigger opening on PS4 is possible. At that point the debate will change from the series is ruined to PS4 saved it.

Fighting isn't a major genre but its still has an audience, MKX sold well over 3 million in physical units and KI has apparently been a success. SF isn't niche, Capcom just failed to make a notable successor thus far.

RotTR is still in a good place but the future of SF feels a little more bleak if they can't make SFVI feel fresh.

w/e Square Enix. *flips middle finger*

You would've made a bigger profit if you didn't sell out.

Well he's got it right in my opinion.

I don't think IP is damaged, just the potential sales of RotTR. I said that a few times in this thread, that's why a money hat costs money. Tomb Raider's fanbase has grown and shrank in the past.

I think SFV is damaged by being mediocre and losing out to the Xbox userbase entirely. Now lets drop SFV, agreed its a tangent.

I'm not going in circles, you just aren't understanding my points regardless how many times I repeat them. Other users seems to get what I'm saying though.

No most here agree with me.  

And another contradiction is saying SFV sold so little on ps4/pc because it's mediocre but it would have sold "millions" on X1. Like do x1 owners not get put off by mediocre games?  Lol of course they do.  And please do drop the tangent.  There was no need to bring it up in the first place.  

An ip is damaged if it's sales potential is damaged.  All those non ps4 sales won't just simply return.  It's not like ROTTR is an uncharted 4 quality game of the gen.  It's not that simple my friend.