FishyJoe said: The male 18-25 market is huge, the problem is that Sony and MS are waged in battle over that audience while ignoring the rest. So Nintendo just has be respectable in that category and they have free reign over the rest of the population. What amazes me is the neither Sony nor MS put any real effort into expanding the market. It's like they had tunnel vision.

I doubt its tunnel vision, Joe, although I'll admit that Nintendo has been particularly innovative during its time in the Video Game market. Instead, it's a matter of risk, I think. If someone were to go to a Sony or Microsoft exec and say: "would you like to capture the 25+ market?" They would, to a man, say: "Why, yes I would." The problem is that there's a lot of risk involved in trying ot capture it. Just look at the Wii -- no one is denying that it's doing well now, but nobody was so sure 12 months ago. This could have literally been then end of Nintendo. No joke: this could have made them go out of business entirely. So while I'd agree that Nintendo has (once again) innovated and succeeded at it, I'd point out that there are risks involved with such innovation. I'd like to see how many risks you're willing to take when there are literally billions of dollars on the line. It's not easy :p

BenKenobi88 said: k, I'm a man, aged 19, I have friends 18-25, male and female, that I hang out with regularly. I hate getting grouped in with the crowd that would typically play "mature" games. We all enjoyed God of War, and the Grand Theft Autos, because they are quality games, but we probably had even more fun playing games like Viva Pinata or Wii games. But I suppose there's plenty of frat boys to fill the demographic.

Yeah, I'm not sure you're the norm, Ben. I'm not saying you're an absolute freak, by any means, but I think last generation made it clear: if the majority of the focus is on competing for the 18-25 year old age bracket, the Playstation-type console wins. In fact, thanks to this site, we can even give specific numbers: I'd say around 70-75 percent of the 18-25 bracket prefer God of War / Grand Theft Auto type games to games like Zelda / Mario, based purely on last generation's market share. I just eyeballed that number, but I bet it's pretty close. Similarly, not every adult hates God of War or GTA. I'm sure there are lots of 35 year olds out there playing GTA. I'd say generally, however, that most people in that bracket are probably going to prefer games like Wii Sports and Brain Game. And that really does seem to be true: I think most people seem to agree that a good portion of the Wii's success is the expanding market, especially into adult territories. Some adults already played, I agree. These aren't absolute rules, just trends.

shams said: GTA is the perfect example... it is NOT a game targeted at adults. I know several children under the age of 10 who actively play it, and many, many teenagers around the 15yr bracket. It might deal with more mature themes (violence, drugs, sex, killing) - but it is not a game for adults.

QFT.

I think people will probably find that more REAL adults would be happier to play a game of Mario (described as “kiddy”), than a game of GTA.  The reason I think as mentioned in a number of posts above is that adults really don’t give a sh** if the game is labelled kiddy or not… they enjoy it and that’s it, they have nothing to prove.

Male teens on the other hand seem to feel a constant need to reinforce themes of maturity and masculinity in their activities.  Really, it’s mainly kids that utter the words "I can’t play that… that’s a kid’s game!"

Ironic thing is, I haven't found a single adult that you speak of in America that enjoys any of these psuedo "they're really for adult" games. I know a father and his 8 y/o daughter that both play GTA. I think the problem with the whole logic of "GTA is really a teen game" is the fact that teens are into adult things, and M-rated games, pornography, violence, ect. So are some adults. Heck, I used to work at a police station, and half the cops (again adults) owned atleast one copy of a GTA game. Are brain age titles and things of that natured targeted to adults? Absolutely. I think the title should be "Nintendo - leader of non-game adult oriented games that don't include other titles in the same arena such as Solitare"

mrstickball said: Ironic thing is, I haven't found a single adult that you speak of in America that enjoys any of these psuedo "they're really for adult" games. I know a father and his 8 y/o daughter that both play GTA. I think the problem with the whole logic of "GTA is really a teen game" is the fact that teens are into adult things, and M-rated games, pornography, violence, ect. So are some adults. Heck, I used to work at a police station, and half the cops (again adults) owned atleast one copy of a GTA game. Are brain age titles and things of that natured targeted to adults? Absolutely. I think the title should be "Nintendo - leader of non-game adult oriented games that don't include other titles in the same arena such as Solitare"

This is absolutely and diometrically opposed to my own personal experience. I know no adult, be they friend or mere aquaintance, that plays any of the mentioned titles (God of War, GTA, etc). None, at all. I know there are some out there, just as there are kids that watch movies like "The Queen" or "BrokeBack Mountain," which really are titles for adults (I tend to think of "adult" as intellectual complexity, not simply "has sex and violence"), but it's less common, I believe. Again, we're talking trends, not absolutes. So you have your experience, I have mine, and we both have the larger pool of data known as system sales. And frankly, that larger pool of data does not seem to strongly support your claim that adults age 30+ tend to prefer GTA games to things like Wii Sports and Brain Game. Again, Mrstickball, your idea of adult things, by your own words, is something that has: "Pornography, violence, etc." Those aren't adult things, in my opinion, although I absolutely agree that SOME adults enjoy those things (just as some adults enjoy Zelda games, it's just less common). Adult, to me, means "intellectually or emotionally complex." Again, some examples: "Mission Impossible" is not an adult movie. "The Queen" is. 300 is not an adult movie. "Pan's Labrynth" is. I think those examples show the distinction I'm trying to make here. Edit: I want to point out something. I'm not saying that an adult commodity CAN'T have sex and violence. It can, absolutely, and often does. I'm just saying this isn't what defines an adult item -- adult stuff often does and often does not have violence and sex. It's not a defining feature of adult content, and I mean that quite literally. Simple example -- Ice Cream can have a cone. Sometimes it does not. Either way, it's Ice Cream, as Ice Cream is not defined by whether its in a cone. So too, adult content can have sex and violence. It can also not have it. Either way, it's adult, which isn't defined by sexuality and violence.

Bodhesatva said: Adult, to me, means "intellectually or emotionally complex." Again, some examples: "Mission Impossible" is not an adult movie. "The Queen" is. 300 is not an adult movie. "Pan's Labrynth" is. I think those examples show the distinction I'm trying to make here.

Agreed. What we commonly know as "Adult themes" are simply things we do not want (or expect) children to be involved in. Sex, drugs, violence, etc.

But these are exactly the themes that interest children (as they grow up, and look forward to becoming an adult) - partially because we don't allow children to participate in them.

Children (say 7-8yrs up) understand violence - at least the concept of it. Kids yrs 12-13 up, start to understand sex, drug concepts (smoking), etc. So they are interested in these taboo topics. At least the surface concept of them.

I define a true adult theme as something NO child (or very, very few) would have any interest in - as the themes are too deep, complex, subtle (etc) to understand until you hit the age of 20yrs+. For instance, take the (complex) topic of abortion rights. Not a topic for children, and no child is going to be interested in debating this.

To me, games that involve these complex topics are "true" adult games - and very few exist, or have ever been made. 

 

@ mrstikball

What pseudo "they're really for adult games"?

Anyways, I probably spoke in haste based on personal opinion.  I’m sure there are plenty of adults that enjoy the game as you say.  Wish I had some solid age demographic data to prove/disprove this opinion, but I don't.  My comments were based on personal experience, like your's.  I find GTA is more appealing to teens or those in early 20’s, while a typical Mario game appeals to a wider age group.  I don’t know how it is in America, but this is just *my* experience from observations here in Australia

What I meant was: Although you say that Mario, Zelda, ect are really adult games, not kids games but the movies track to child age groups primarily through whatever art direction. IE, your view of Pans Labrynth vs. 300. Despite your saying that one movie might feature more complex-oriented themes, its meant for adults. Why? The movie was marketed to, and it's primary audience, were children. Games of all formats are like that. Nintendo still gets most of it's sales from the younger generation, or older-gen throwback's that swear by Nintendo (atleast for their primary franchises). I think the distinction we need to make is "adult video games" and "adult software" as stated in the title. Is Brain age a true video game? Not really, despite it's platform. psudeo adult games would primarily be any game that's software and doesn't deal in adult themes to the least bit like Brain Training, Soduku puzzles, or various software of the type - typical software that most adults would buy, not children.