- Don't make me laugh, did you just bring up the 360 in a comparison regarding Japan? The very fact that you have to compare the PS3 to the 360 only makes your argument weaker. PS3's direct competitor in Japan is the Wii, as that's the console which can effectively compete with it. The Wii has already stolen one big Japanese exclusive from the PS3, now that's what I call competition.

- Winning Eleven Wii was launched very late, all the football maniacs surely bought it for the PS2 and aren't going to buy the same game twice. Konami has itself to blame for that one (if they really care that is). I don't know if Zack & Wiki was supposed to do good in Japan, as I don't know their tastes that well, but it's an unproven franchise unlike most of the ones which have done mediocre to poor on the PS3. The same goes for No More Heroes, which seems like a very niche title.

first day sales? from neogaf

First day sales
NDS Pokemon Ranger: Batonnage - 127k
PS3 Armored Core: For Answer - 44k
PSP Tales of Rebirth - 38k
WII Deca Sporta: Wii de Sports 10 Shumoku! - 30k
NDS Sakura Taisen: Kimi Arugatame - 27k
NDS SimCity DS 2: Kodai kara Mirai e Tsuduku Machi - 26k
NDS Crayon Shin-Chan: Arashi o Yobu Cinema Land: Kachinko Gachinko Daikatsugeki! - 19k
PSP Mugen Kairou (echochrome) - 16k
360 Armored Core: For Answer - 16k
NDS Time Hollow: Ubawareta Kako o Motomete - 14k
NDS Chou Nekketsu Koukou Kunio-Kun Dodge Ball Bu - 10k
NDS Kekkaishi: Kokubourou Shuurai - 8k (just 10-20% sell through)
360 Army of Two - 8k
PS3 Army of Two - 6k
NDS Ninja Gaiden Dragon Sword - 4k
NDS Bangai-O Spirits - 3k (

WII Deca Sporta: Wii de Sports 10 Shumoku! - 30k

WOW, whats this lol?

Excuse me? Are you calling well reviewed games like Zack & Wiki, Winning Eleven Wii & No More Heroes mediocre efforts? Now youre making up excuses to cover up the Wii's own problems. I love those games, and I have to admit as a nintendo fan Im very disappointed the way they are performing in Japan especially since they were known to have taste for creative design. Those games deserved to become top sellers in the japanese region alone.

Not all 3rd party support for the Wii has been mediocre. So you best not use that as you defining arguement for the situation of the Wii in Japan.

There is doubt in my mind that Monster Hunter III and Fatal Frame will be fantastic, but it remains questionable on how they will perform in Japan.

I think the "wii owners are younger/(very) young" arguement is incorrect. Indicators show that the Wii is more a family console which applies to both younger and elder crowds. Guitar Hero for example IS performing well... outside of Japan (its yet to be release in Japan). 3rd games are generally performing decent outside of Japan. But IN Japan? please, spare me bullshit. I see software like Wiifit, Wiiplay topping the charts and I cant see how you can pull out that card saying 3rd party PS3 soft fails. Indicators are showing that the Wii userbase is more willing to buy Nintendo published developed games than 3rd party games which is really saddening.

Wii only owners are telling themselves that PS3 software sales arent good enough to overshadow their own situation. I cant deny the hardware sales steep. But software-wise it does show that the sales & consumers are there. Hopefully it will change for the Wii.

First of all, please remain civil in a discussion. Its not that I offended you, I just stated my opinion. Words like "Bullshit" or "making up excuses" doesn´t make you look very good in discussions.

My point is valid, though. I do talk about the situation in general not specific games that sold under expectations. You took two examples to prove your point, No more Heroes and Zack and Wiki.

Well, No more Heroes is a niche game not targeted at the Japanese audience. Aditionally you have to keep in mind that Suda 51 gamnes never sold well. In fact, No more Heroes outsold all Suda 51 games that have ever been released in Japan. A niche title is not a good indicator of a situation. The same goes for Zack and Wiki - it is a great title but it is very niche and it didn´t get any advertisement at all, just like No more Heroes. Both games were literally destined to sell bad in Japan, no matter which console they would´ve been on. Just look at the overall situation and you´ll see that I have a valid point here. Quite funnily, if the first day sales John_Doe posted are to be believed, Deca Sports, a game that really matches the Wii´s casual audience sold 30k units in its first 24 hours on the market which also proves what I said.

By the way I am really getting annoyed by all the people who call the others fanboys or think they are looking for excuses for something. I am here to predict sales and not to find excuses for anything. Its just the way it is, 3rd Party efforts of Japan-centric games so far have been very mediocre on the Wii. Show me some high profile 3rd party titles that were destined to sell well in Japan but didn´t and I´ll agree you have a point here.

Edit: You also metioned Winning Eleven, sorry didn´t see that before. Well, the game was released weeks after all the other versions of the game which automatically means less demand (just look at every single game that was ported form Xbox 360 to PS3, they all sold a lot less on the PS3 as they were not that new anymore). Additionally it had different play mechanics if I remember correctly and wasn´t really that polished as the other versions.

- Only because you dont like to see it from the perspective, you just choose to stay with the perspective that doesnt make the situation seem more reasonable for the PS3. In the HD market the 360 is definitely the PS3 direct competitor.

User base wise? I can give you that. But despite it seems to be a good interest on the PS3. Youre just being silly, looking the other way just to not see it. 

Nintendo may have gotten Monster Hunter III. Í can give you that Winning Eleven is one lucrative series that has failed on the Wii compared to the PS3. I will wait see how others which may possible share the platform with the PS3 will perform before I pass a definite judgement.

- Launching very late or not is absolutely a weak arguement aswell . If the userbase is there as it is claimed to be the sales should've completely overshadowed the PS3 counterpart. I mean come on guys, youre all over how many more Wii consoles have been sold in Japan. The sold consoles should've and extreme difference. Where is it?

So now you move on from "mediocre 3rd party games" to being "unproven franchises". Com'on.

I didnt think the some Wii owners would resort to excuses. This just shows that both PS3 owners and Wii owners are getting VERY protective over their situation in Japan. And this goes to show that both groups are trying to "guillotine" each for their own lack luster performances on both sides.

If you think being compared to the 360 in Japan is a good thing for the PS3, by all means continue to do it, but don't think you'll convince anyone except yourself with that approach. The 360 barely exists at all in Japan, and no one expected it to be otherwise.

- Regarding Winning Eleven, the situation is very simple for me: Almost every gamer in Japan has a PS2, and they had the opportunity of buying the game for the PS2 months earlier than the Wii version was released (or even announced maybe). So it's not really surprising that they bought the game for the PS2 and not for the Wii. If the Wii version had been launched simultaneously, it could have failed and you'd have a pretty solid argument then, but it's not the case.

- I didn't move from "mediocre" to anything, I didn't even mention "mediocre". The fact is that you haven't proven that those games were expected to do great in Japan. If Monster Hunter 3 fails, then we can talk about 3rd parties' disgrace in Japan.

  Launching very late is one of the best arguments why sales of a game fell short of expectations - if you want, I can give you a list of games for the 5th, 6th and 7th gen that have firstly been released on one platform and later on another one and sold less on the second platform. Would this be enough prove for you? Additionally, nobody is trying to find any excuses here, it is just an explanation. Just because we are talking about the Wii doesn´t change the situation in any way.

- Oh please, suddenly these words are forbidden or black listed in discussions? If you cant handle the use of them ignore them instead of trying lecture me about how advance a discussion. You should be prepared for the possibility that some one may use that/those words in the context of the discussion instead of lecturing on how inappropriate it is according to one self. 

-Overall I can largely agree with your context there but I still stand by my perspective. All Im saying is that I would love to see the Wii do better, but right now its underperforming its potential. The same of course applies to the PS3. 

-Please point out the moment I called some one out for being a fanboy (which I assume you mean in response to my last reply). I avoid using that word as much as possible.

*There is no doubt in my mind that Monster Hunter III and Fatal Frame will be fantastic, but it remains questionable on how they will perform in Japan.

sorry about that forgot to include the no, just to precent any misunderstanding. Im looking much forward to Fatal Frame and Monster Hunter.

1) Its not that I wasn´t prepared for something like that, I just told you it doesn´t make you look very good in a discussion. Actually, if we were to have a political discussion I´d just have to lean back and let you commit suicide to win it. Just wanted to point it out. Its not like we are enemies or something

2) I agree, the Wii is underperforming in 3rd party sales but as I said this is at least partly due to the fact that 3rd party efforts on the Wii haven´t been as big as on PS3 or 360. 

3) You didn´t call anybody a fanboy but you also didn´t read my post carefully - I said I don´t like it when people say the others are looking for excuses. Look our discussion went that way: You gave a statement, I said I don´t agree and gave you some points why I don´t. But instead of answering or prove me wrong you keep saying I´m looking for excuses so you don´t have to answer directly. Now follow my advice and give me some prove for your point. Show me Japan-centric games for the Wii that should´ve sold very well and didn´t. If you show me some of those games I promise I´ll collect a list with games that were later ported to another platform and sold bad because they´ve been released late. Just look at all the games ported from Xbox 360 to PS3: Oblivion and Lost Planet for example. Or think of Mortal Combat on SNES / Genesis which sold worse on the SNES because it didn´t feature blood. Fact is: If a game is releases simultaneously on two consoles the superior version often sells better and if a game is firstly released on one console and later on a second one, the version that was firstly released often sells better. In the case of PES in Japan the game was released later aswell as the inferior version. There you go. No excuses, just facts.