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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - At this rate, Zelda X will arrive in 2021

curl-6 said:

Rare may have been smart enough to divide their workforce, but they were still just a single studio that wasn't overly big. Maybe the Zelda guys could learn a thing or two and have separate teams to curb their drawn out production cycles. As for Motion Plus, that was in a useable form back at E3 2008, over three years before Skyward Sword's release, so that doesn't fly as an excuse for SS taking 5 years.

And even if we pretend for a moment that HD level graphics are not demanding to make (they are, obviously, this is common knowledge) then how do you excuse Zelda U's 5 year cycle? "Dungeons" and "mechanics" and "bosses", elements that in their current form date back largely unchanged to the 1990s?

 

Rare were a big developer and had been since the 80s, this isn't a small studio they had over 200 employees before people left this is comparable to some publishers and big companies of the time you're flat out lying here or maybe you really don't know what you're talking about, the 3 teams would have been bigger in size to many small studios themselves.

Mate your argument on WMP is highlighting desparation, SS already had its design and concepts in place before WMP was useable the more you reply the more you're showing you're out your depth here, the whole programing, animations and design would have had to be redone to work well with WMP. Graphics aren't as demanding to do companies can do them easy it's balancing resources on hardware that is hard, this why a number of games when first shown are often better looking then when they release.



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Wyrdness said:
curl-6 said:

Rare may have been smart enough to divide their workforce, but they were still just a single studio that wasn't overly big. Maybe the Zelda guys could learn a thing or two and have separate teams to curb their drawn out production cycles. As for Motion Plus, that was in a useable form back at E3 2008, over three years before Skyward Sword's release, so that doesn't fly as an excuse for SS taking 5 years.

And even if we pretend for a moment that HD level graphics are not demanding to make (they are, obviously, this is common knowledge) then how do you excuse Zelda U's 5 year cycle? "Dungeons" and "mechanics" and "bosses", elements that in their current form date back largely unchanged to the 1990s?

Rare were a big developer and had been since the 80s, this isn't a small studio they had over 200 employees before people left this is comparable to some publishers and big companies of the time you're flat out lying here or maybe you really don't know what you're talking about, the 3 teams would have been bigger in size to many small studios themselves.

Mate your argument on WMP is highlighting desparation, SS already had its design and concepts in place before WMP was useable the more you reply the more you're showing you're out your depth here, the whole programing, animations and design would have had to be redone to work well with WMP. Graphics aren't as demanding to do companies can do them easy it's balancing resources on hardware that is hard, this why a number of games when first shown are often better looking then when they release.

200 people isn't big at all by current standards, because today's games take far more manpower to make, which is the whole point.

And WMP was in a finished state mid 2008, so even if what you're saying were true, that only makes the fact that SS took a further three and a half years to come out all the more inexcusable. 



curl-6 said:

200 people isn't big at all by current standards, because today's games take far more manpower to make, which is the whole point.

And WMP was in a finished state mid 2008, so even if what you're saying were true, that only makes the fact that it took a further three and a half years to come out all the more inexcusable. 

 

"Blah Blah Blah Today's standards Blah Blah Blah" well guess what 200 people was massive for development during that era much like how with inflation the value of money changes throughout the years, this point you're parroting comically does nothing to back your stance, you're the one who even brought up Rare and it's backfired on your argument. Having to redo a game can easily take that long in fact you're now contradicting your previous arguments as now 3 years is unacceptable? I think you don't even know you're own argument here or just want to complain about Zelda's development.



Wyrdness said:
curl-6 said:

200 people isn't big at all by current standards, because today's games take far more manpower to make, which is the whole point.

And WMP was in a finished state mid 2008, so even if what you're saying were true, that only makes the fact that it took a further three and a half years to come out all the more inexcusable. 

"Blah Blah Blah Today's standards Blah Blah Blah" well guess what 200 people was massive for development during that era much like how with inflation the value of money changes throughout the years, this point you're parroting comically does nothing to back your stance, you're the one who even brought up Rare and it's backfired on your argument. Having to redo a game can easily take that long in fact you're now contradicting your previous arguments as now 3 years is unacceptable? I think you don't even know you're own argument here or just want to complain about Zelda's development.

You lost track of the original point; that making a game in 2 years was much easier back in the 5th gen compared to on PS3/360/Wii U.

There is no contradiction; 3 years would be acceptable for a total production cycle, but Skyward Sword's total was 5 years, not 3, and nothing about the finished game justifies that.





curl-6 said:

You lost track of the original point; that making a game in 2 years was much easier back in the 5th gen compared to on PS3/360/Wii U.

There is no contradiction; 3 years would be acceptable for a total production cycle, but Skyward Sword's total was 5 years, not 3, and nothing about the finished game justfies that.



 


According to whom yourself whose not a developer? The game easily jusitfies it for many other people a game's end product is all that matters, the 360 era had the luxury of premade engines like the one used by Darksiders, for games like Zelda these engines are problematic.



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Wyrdness said:
curl-6 said:

You lost track of the original point; that making a game in 2 years was much easier back in the 5th gen compared to on PS3/360/Wii U.

There is no contradiction; 3 years would be acceptable for a total production cycle, but Skyward Sword's total was 5 years, not 3, and nothing about the finished game justfies that.

According to whom yourself whose not a developer? The game easily jusitfies it for many other people a game's end product is all that matters, the 360 era had the luxury of premade engines like the one used by Darksiders, for games like Zelda these engines are problematic.

One doesn't have to be a developer to see that more demanding games have been made in less time. Also, do you know for a fact that Skyward Sword didn't just use the same "premade" engine as Wind Waker and Twilight Princess?



curl-6 said:
Wyrdness said:

According to whom yourself whose not a developer? The game easily jusitfies it for many other people a game's end product is all that matters, the 360 era had the luxury of premade engines like the one used by Darksiders, for games like Zelda these engines are problematic.

One doesn't have to be a developer to see that more demanding games have been made in less time. Also, do you know for a fact that Skyward Sword didn't just use the same "premade" engine as Wind Waker and Twilight Princess?

 

Dude you don't know what is more demanding in development come off that crap now you're just making assumptions on the fly to suit your argument you didn't even know Rare were a large studio. Development isn't straight forward like you claim, Aonuma even said in an interview graphical styles like WW were harder to program then approaches like TP.

SS also didn't use TP and WW's engine, the base coding was based on their engines it's engine itself is not the same one, these are ground up engines not licensed ones. 



Fewer portable titles would be a good start. Add to that, every other portable release is outsourced (i.e. the "Oracle" GBC titles). A quirky, unique follow-up like "Majora's Mask" could be created for each new engine - varying in tone from the major releases, but being only a tweak on the overall visuals.

There is no reason, following this sort of strategy, that Nintendo could not conceivably release full console "Zelda" titles at two and three year intervals (3,2,3,2). Even a change of that sort would mean double the number of major releases in a given decade.

Nobody is asking for annualized "Zelda" games, God forbid. It would be nice to get regularly released ones, though.



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Wyrdness said:
curl-6 said:

One doesn't have to be a developer to see that more demanding games have been made in less time. Also, do you know for a fact that Skyward Sword didn't just use the same "premade" engine as Wind Waker and Twilight Princess?

Dude you don't know what is more demanding in development come off that crap now you're just making assumptions on the fly to suit your argument you didn't even know Rare were a large studio. Development isn't straight forward like you claim, Aonuma even said in an interview graphical styles like WW were harder to program then approaches like TP.

SS also didn't use TP and WW's engine, the base coding was based on their engines it's engine itself is not the same one, these are ground up engines not licensed ones. 

You continue missing the point about Rare; that back then games took nowhere near as much resources and manpower as today. Making a N64 game in two years (Majora) is a piece of piss compared to making a PS3/360/Wii U game in two years. (Darksiders II)

Can you back up your claims about Skyward Sword not using Wind Waker/Twilight Princess's engine with anything besides your say-so?





curl-6 said:

You continue missing the point about Rare; that back then games took nowhere near as much resources and manpower as today. Making a N64 game in two years (Majora) is a piece of piss compared to making a PS3/360/Wii U game in two years. (Darksiders II)

Can you back up your claims about Skyward Sword not using Wind Waker/Twilight Princess's engine with anything besides your say-so?



Different eras 90s didn't have many conveniences developers had today a lot of things were done manually so it balances out, a lot of resources today are also spent on pointless crap like bringing in high paid actors or practices that aren't needed, Darksiders 2 like MM reused assets and the engine while a game like TP used WW's engine but couldn't use the same assets as it's a different concept and approach while D2 they didn't have that issue. When you reuse things rather then building them from scratch it cuts a lot of time, your whole point is D2 did it so 3 years should be the limit well guess what D2 had a lot of things already made before it was even in development.

I'll ask you to do the same for every part of your argument as most of it is your own word, from people who hacked the game it's more closer to Brawl's engine in fact the main bulk of the engine is Brawl's engine heavily modfied and retooled which would make sense as Brawl released as SS' development was ramping up, TP and WW's base code was present or at least code that was based on it, the engine itself seemed to take elements from various in house engines they had including WSR, I'll dig up the link when I can and PM you as due to the nature of the forums it can't be posted here.