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Forums - Nintendo - At this rate, Zelda X will arrive in 2021

Wyrdness said:
curl-6 said:

Dungeon designs in Skyward Sword were clever, but they were not signficantly more complex than those of Ocarina of Time back on N64. This kind of game design dates back to the mid 1990s and is not remotely demanding in the 21st century.

Complete rubbish, such design is heavily demanding hence why you don't see it in many games at all even Zelda clones.

Darksiders 2 was a HD Zelda clone and came out 2 years after Darksiders 1. 

The Zelda team is just heavily inefficient.



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curl-6 said:

Darksiders 2 was a HD Zelda clone and came out 2 years after Darksiders 1. 

The Zelda team is just heavily inefficient.

 

It reused assets and the same engine, MM did the same and came out 2 years after OOT yet they're inefficient? Nice double standards.



Wyrdness said:
curl-6 said:

Darksiders 2 was a HD Zelda clone and came out 2 years after Darksiders 1. 

The Zelda team is just heavily inefficient.

It reused assets and the same engine, MM did the same and came out 2 years after OOT yet they're inefficient? Nice double standards.

Majora came out back when a AAA game could be made in a matter of months.

Darksiders was on PS3/360, where development is vastly more time consuming.

I didn't say the Zelda team was always inefficient, just for the last 9 years.



curl-6 said:

Majora came out back when a AAA game could be made in a matter of months.

Darksiders was on PS3/360, where development is vastly more time consuming.

I didn't say the Zelda team was always inefficient, just for the last 9 years.

Hahaha

So let me get this staright all of a sudden you acknowledge HD develoment is time consuming for the sake of your argument? Also your comment about AAA games being made in months is not only an outright lie but is pure garbage sorry but you have to be told, FF games couldn't be made in months, neither were RE games, Zelda, MGS, Banjo, Conker, Tomb Raider, Gran Turismo etc...

We'll forget you even tried to use such an argument, that was the jump to 3D which was the biggest in jump in gaming history and designs had to evolve for 3D and AAA games weren't coming out every few months, HD is more resource management for the hardware.

The Zelda team has output 4 Zelda games in the last 9 years with the 5th one coming up in Zelda U, that sounds pretty efficient to me.





Wyrdness said:
curl-6 said:

Majora came out back when a AAA game could be made in a matter of months.

Darksiders was on PS3/360, where development is vastly more time consuming.

I didn't say the Zelda team was always inefficient, just for the last 9 years.

Hahaha

So let me get this staright all of a sudden you acknowledge HD develoment is time consuming for the sake of your argument? Also your comment about AAA games being made in months is not only an outright lie but is pure garbage sorry but you have to be told, FF games couldn't be made in months, neither were RE games, Zelda, MGS, Banjo, Conker, Tomb Raider, Gran Turismo etc...

We'll forget you even tried to use such an argument, that was the jump to 3D which was the biggest in jump in gaming history and designs had to evolve for 3D and AAA games weren't coming out every few months, HD is more resource management for the hardware.

The Zelda team has output 4 Zelda games in the last 9 years with the 5th one coming up in Zelda U, that sounds pretty efficient to me.

I have never denied that HD development is demanding, but it does not excuse a 5 year cycle. The Darksiders guys didn't take 5 years, and they were developing at HD level also.

As for the 5th gen, let's look at the output of a just single studio, Rare, over just 5 years on the N64: 

- Goldeneye 007

- Banjo Kazooie

- Jet Force Jemini

- Donkey Kong 64

- Killer Instinct Gold

- Blast Corps

- Diddy Kong Racing

- Perfect Dark

- Banjo Tooie

- Conker's Bad Fur Day

Game development in the 90s was cheap and quick compared to today.



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curl-6 said:

I have never denied that HD development is demanding, but it does not excuse a 5 year cycle. The Darksiders guys didn't take 5 years, and they were developing at HD level also.

As for the 5th gen, let's look at the output of a just single studio, Rare, over just 5 years on the N64: 

- Goldeneye 007

- Banjo Kazooie

- Jet Force Jemini

- Donkey Kong 64

- Killer Instinct Gold

- Blast Corps

- Diddy Kong Racing

- Perfect Dark

- Banjo Tooie

- Conker's Bad Fur Day

Game development in the 90s was cheap and quick compared to today.

 

Rare had 3 teams which dismantles that point completely as that's 3 titles per team Zelda team has output 4, development being quicker and cheaper then today still doesn't mean it only took a few months to development AAA titles that is full blown BS no ifs no buts just BS. Darksiders like any other Zelda clone would be a lite Zelda game at best.

For all the moaning and complaints you're trying to throw out you're using poor examples to back them and your statements are baseless such as claiming what is demanding and not, I know from learning programming at Uni it's not as straight forward as what you and Pav are trying to make out.



Pavolink said:
archer9234 said:

Different teams. Who cares, lol. You're still getting a Zelda game somewhere.



Different teams, different Zelda games. I wouldn't compare The Wind Waker to Minish Cap. On top of that, if I don't have a handheld then I don't have a Zelda game. So no.

 

But that was your choice to not buy the handheld. That's just like people bitching about Bayonetta 2. If you really wanted the game. Go buy the console. So are you saying all the Zelda handheld games are inferior? My basic position is. There was a new Zelda game out somewhere. This will be even less of an excues. If NX does what people are saying.





Wyrdness said:
curl-6 said:

I have never denied that HD development is demanding, but it does not excuse a 5 year cycle. The Darksiders guys didn't take 5 years, and they were developing at HD level also.

As for the 5th gen, let's look at the output of a just single studio, Rare, over just 5 years on the N64: 

- Goldeneye 007

- Banjo Kazooie

- Jet Force Jemini

- Donkey Kong 64

- Killer Instinct Gold

- Blast Corps

- Diddy Kong Racing

- Perfect Dark

- Banjo Tooie

- Conker's Bad Fur Day

Game development in the 90s was cheap and quick compared to today.

Rare had 3 teams which dismantles that point completely as that's 3 titles per team Zelda team has output 4, development being quicker and cheaper then today still doesn't mean it only took a few months to development AAA titles that is full blown BS no ifs no buts just BS. Darksiders like any other Zelda clone would be a lite Zelda game at best.

For all the moaning and complaints you're trying to throw out you're using poor examples to back them and your statements are baseless such as claiming what is demanding and not, I know from learning programming at Uni it's not as straight forward as what you and Pav are trying to make out.

5th gen Rare were not a large team by today's standards, yet they were still able to subdivide their workload to produce multiple games at once and 9 games across 5 years. Because AAA games back then required nowhere near the time and resources that they do today. Ergo, putting out Majora 2 years after Ocarina is not particularly impressive compared to making a HD level game in 2 years.

That said, I would not call the Zelda team inefficient back then. It wasn't until Skyward's Sword's drawn out production that they started to take way longer than necessary to release mainline Zelda entries.

And the Darksiders games are no less complex than Skyward Sword in terms of design, (and they are hugely more complex graphically) yet two were made in the time it took to make Skyward Sword. 



curl-6 said:

5th gen Rare were not a large team by today's standards, yet they were still able to subdivide their workload to produce multiple games at once and 9 games across 5 years. Because AAA games back then required nowhere near the time and resources that they do today. Ergo, putting out Majora 2 years after Ocarina is not particularly impressive compared to making a HD level game in 2 years.

That said, I would not call the Zelda team inefficient back then. It wasn't until Skyward's Sword's drawn out production that they started to take way longer than necessary to release mainline Zelda entries.

And the Darksiders games are no less complex than Skyward Sword in terms of design, (and they are hugely more complex graphically) yet two were made in the time it took to make Skyward Sword. 

 

Maybe you're having trouble reading, Rare had 3 teams so 3 teams making 9 games is not much to brag about for your comparison, your mumble jumble about them not being as big as teams today is as null and void as your examples and arguments here. AAA games did not take a few months to make you're pulling that one out from where the sun doesn't shine that's straight up BS and nothing more then a desperate attempt to back your stance. SS had to be extended because WMP came out and the team wanted to use it.

Darksiders was created in 2 years so what WW was completed in 1 year, unfortunately for you your graphics argument won't fly because I know they're the part of development that isn't as demanding because that comes down creating textures and their quality, This isn't the demanding complex process you're making it out to be that you're using as a crotch for your argument it's actually one of the easier parts of development, different graphical approach doesn't equal more demanding to make.



Wyrdness said:
curl-6 said:

5th gen Rare were not a large team by today's standards, yet they were still able to subdivide their workload to produce multiple games at once and 9 games across 5 years. Because AAA games back then required nowhere near the time and resources that they do today. Ergo, putting out Majora 2 years after Ocarina is not particularly impressive compared to making a HD level game in 2 years.

That said, I would not call the Zelda team inefficient back then. It wasn't until Skyward's Sword's drawn out production that they started to take way longer than necessary to release mainline Zelda entries.

And the Darksiders games are no less complex than Skyward Sword in terms of design, (and they are hugely more complex graphically) yet two were made in the time it took to make Skyward Sword. 

Maybe you're having trouble reading, Rare had 3 teams so 3 teams making 9 games is not much to brag about for your comparison, your mumble jumble about them not being as big as teams today is as null and void as your examples and arguments here. AAA games did not take a few months to make you're pulling that one out from where the sun doesn't shine that's straight up BS and nothing more then a desperate attempt to back your stance. SS had to be extended because WMP came out and the team wanted to use it.

Darksiders was created in 2 years so what WW was completed in 1 year, unfortunately for you your graphics argument won't fly because I know they're the part of development that isn't as demanding because that comes down creating textures and their quality, This isn't the demanding complex process you're making it out to be that you're using as a crotch for your argument it's actually one of the easier parts of development, different graphical approach doesn't equal more demanding to make.

Rare may have been smart enough to divide their workforce, but they were still just a single studio that wasn't overly big. Maybe the Zelda guys could learn a thing or two and have separate teams to curb their drawn out production cycles. As for Motion Plus, that was in a useable form back at E3 2008, over three years before Skyward Sword's release, so that doesn't fly as an excuse for SS taking 5 years.

And even if we pretend for a moment that HD level graphics are not demanding to make (they are, obviously, this is common knowledge) then how do you excuse Zelda U's 5 year cycle? "Dungeons" and "mechanics" and "bosses", elements that in their current form date back largely unchanged to the 1990s?