"I think the issue here is that you may actually be looking to claim a "winner". When there isn't always a clear winner."

by your own words not one system can be dominating another b/c no clear winner can be seen here...those making you entrie thread and every argument you have had to this point and will continue to have moot

moar funny pictures

(see what i did there--regardless of everything else you have said i CHERRY PICKED) a "snap shot" and can clearly destroy all logic and fact with it...have fun now)

That was the question:
Is Sony's strategy of brand loyalty and a long-lifespan of consoles somehow something that should be ignored? We know that the Wii is a phenomenal seller and it is getting its due credit. But isn't it legitimate to look at the fact that Sony is targeting buyers by having two viable consoles available? And by doing this they're actually selling the most total consoles.

They are selling the most consoles but that's not important, at least not to anyone but Sony. What's important is the future. The fact that Sony removed the emotion engine from the PS3 proves that Sony wants more money now to try to make up the loss caused by the PS3 by forcing people who want to play PS2 games to buy a PS2. I think that it saved them a lot of money to do so but it put them behind in the long run against X360 and Wii who are both backward compatible. People that do not own a PS2 and buy one now might have bought a PS3 if it was backward compatible. So in a way, you could say that the sales of PS2 is actually hurting the sale of PS3. In that case, I don't think we could say it's a good long-term strategy but they are selling more consoles now.

Also, I think a lot of people who bought a PS2 last generation are likely to get a X360 or Wii for the sole reason that would buy both a Xbox and a 360 or a GC and a Wii, especially if both are dominating the PS3.

This feels like SDF, therefore fails completely.

Sqrl said: BMaker11 said: Who said the PS3 was doing terribly when compared to PS2, and that it followed the GC/Xbox trendline? VGC says differently: http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=PS2&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=------&weeks=156 Matter of fact, it's following EXACTLY the same as the PS2 almost   ^^That was seriously the face I made when I read your post. This is an argument that has come up many many times. Try these: Japan - Europe - America Europe matches up closely without the early data mucking things up. But the other two regions lag behind. This is clearly incongruent with the graph you linked, so lets look closer. If you look at weekly sales from launch you can see that the PS3 has yet to show it can perform as well as the PS2 did during the holidays and is still performing under the PS2 during the normal part of the year as well. Just as a note, the reason the Wii is ahead of the PS2 on these graphs is because the PS2 didn't actually leap out to ridiculous sales right away, it actually took till its second year before it got a full head of steam. So even the Wii is going to have to show some muscle to keep pace in the coming weeks. Also you could have checked the GC and Xbox trends to see there were problems. Even the GC & Xbox keep up for the first 40 weeks or so, just like the PS3. The PS3 cought back up due to holiday offsets but here in about 12 weeks (based on your graph) the PS3 will be competing against the PS2's first big holiday season and will likely fall behind. You really have to know what you're looking at with aligned launch graphs. Staggered launches, and the general performance throughout the lifetime of the consoles being compared can skew things quite a bit.

Ok...you can cherry pick if you want and try and separate it into regions (even though the graphs shows ALL REGIONS) but the fact of the matter is that 60-70 weeks after their respective inital launches, the PS2 and PS3 worldwide sales were about the same, and that's all that really matters. Especially to the people that keep spouting "The PS3 install base it too small to deserve an exclusive game. Company X is dumb for not putting it on the 360" even though total, yes TOTAL numbers show that comparatively, the PS3 is doing very well when put it in league with its' predeccesor. I mean, VGC IS a sales tracking/comparison site. Why get your panties in a bunch when I compare numbers?

And even if you do decide to look at the GC trendline, you'll still see that it falls off and that it didn't reach the numbers the PS3 has as of now until about 70-80 weeks after you see the GC lag behind where the PS3 is.

So yeah, you fail 

 Actually more like NDF to me.  

I read and lurk on the Sony gaming forums quite a bit, specifically in the Socom forums.   blykmik is one of the highest respected posters there because he puts alot of thought into his posts, has great ideas and is a positive member to the community. 

 I haven't posted much on here lately just because of some posters who will fight tooth and nail about how great the Wii is and then laugh at everythign Sony does even if it's a good thing, such as Blu-Ray beating HDDVD. (ie. LOL BD won't win because of  digital downloads).

 Lately the sniping towards Sony has dropped, but once someone dares to speak about how Nintendo may not be the most dominant gaming company by a long shot a thread quickly becomes filled with anti-sony/Pro-nintendo posts from the Nintendo faithful here. 

And there may be a very good reason why PS2 software isn't selling as good as it used to when looking at the charts.  Trade-in's and those sold on ebay, etc are not counted into software sales since they initially were released.  Many who have bought a PS2 can find a very vast game library to enjoy by buying used and not new.  So obviously it's not in the charts since they were sold before.

 He's constantly come back and replied respectfully to all who were negative, posting lolcats, sniping at him, and has not fired off any cheap shots at the nintendo fanboys.   I see his point of where he is coming from and it perfectly makes sense to me.   Many nintendo fans will agree that graphically the Wii is like a souped up PS2 with motion controls, but still not in the same ball park when talking about graphics on the 360 or PS3.  
Of course, now I expect those to come back and say how "I'm a Sony Fanboy".  Well, I'm not. Yes, I do have a PS3. But I also have a 360.   If I were a true sony fanboy, I wouldn't dare be caught owning a game system that is a competitor to Sony.   My TV wouldn't be a Hitachi and my DVD player wouldn't be a Toshiba and my receiver wouldn't be an onkyo if I were a "true" sony fanboy. 

Besides, should all of you nintendo fanboys be busy playign SSBB and not arguing on the web? I mean is it like the second coming of Jesus to some here, so I don't know why you'd lose out on gaming time just to post in a thread about a guy who brought up some interesting questions and solid data.  *Flawed in Nintendo Fanboys eyes because Nintendo no longer has a monster lead in this case* 

lol guys wow great job jumping on him. The ps2 is still relevant because it's still selling. IT"S LASTED THIS LONG. The xbox and the gamecube both lost and were discontinued. The ps2 wasnt, so it still counts. ANd the hand held markets are completely different. By the way, EXCLUDING ps2, how many months has the ps3 been outselling the xbox360? .... ?

You need to separate into regions because the PS2 launched in Japan 7 months ahead of its NA launch, while PS3 launched in both regions at the same time. Otherwise it's just not a valid comparison. Unless you're also claiming that the Wii is selling more than twice as fast as the PS2 and is thus on pace for 250 million sales worldwide.

If you guys want to cling to your past victories with the PS2 and shut yourself off from reality, that's fine, but don't try to pretend that a PS2 sale today really necessarily means a PS3 sale 5 years from now, or that the fact that the PS2 is still selling is in any way surprising when every other winning console has done the same thing.

PS2 sales are no more relevant now than GBA sales were last year when it was beating the PS3 every month.

BMaker11 said: Sqrl said: BMaker11 said: Who said the PS3 was doing terribly when compared to PS2, and that it followed the GC/Xbox trendline? VGC says differently: http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=PS2&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=------&weeks=156 Matter of fact, it's following EXACTLY the same as the PS2 almost   ^^That was seriously the face I made when I read your post. This is an argument that has come up many many times. Try these: Japan - Europe - America Europe matches up closely without the early data mucking things up. But the other two regions lag behind. This is clearly incongruent with the graph you linked, so lets look closer. If you look at weekly sales from launch you can see that the PS3 has yet to show it can perform as well as the PS2 did during the holidays and is still performing under the PS2 during the normal part of the year as well. Just as a note, the reason the Wii is ahead of the PS2 on these graphs is because the PS2 didn't actually leap out to ridiculous sales right away, it actually took till its second year before it got a full head of steam. So even the Wii is going to have to show some muscle to keep pace in the coming weeks. Also you could have checked the GC and Xbox trends to see there were problems. Even the GC & Xbox keep up for the first 40 weeks or so, just like the PS3. The PS3 cought back up due to holiday offsets but here in about 12 weeks (based on your graph) the PS3 will be competing against the PS2's first big holiday season and will likely fall behind. You really have to know what you're looking at with aligned launch graphs. Staggered launches, and the general performance throughout the lifetime of the consoles being compared can skew things quite a bit. Ok...you can cherry pick if you want and try and separate it into regions (even though the graphs shows ALL REGIONS) but the fact of the matter is that 60-70 weeks after their respective inital launches, the PS2 and PS3 worldwide sales were about the same, and that's all that really matters. Especially to the people that keep spouting "The PS3 install base it too small to deserve an exclusive game. Company X is dumb for not putting it on the 360" even though total, yes TOTAL numbers show that comparatively, the PS3 is doing very well when put it in league with its' predeccesor. I mean, VGC IS a sales tracking/comparison site. Why get your panties in a bunch when I compare numbers? And even if you do decide to look at the GC trendline, you'll still see that it falls off and that it didn't reach the numbers the PS3 has as of now until about 70-80 weeks after you see the GC lag behind where the PS3 is. So yeah, you fail

WARNING: Critical thinking and the ability to read graphs required!

My argument was a lot more than breaking it up by region, breaking it up by region was meant purely to show there was an issue with your comparison.

FACT: PS2 didn't start selling well until around week 40. Proof (this is due to a staggered launch FYI)

FACT: PS3 started to lag behind the aligned launches at around week 40. Proof

FACT: PS3 cought back up due to hitting the holidays which started to kick in around week 50 until around week 60. Proof

FACT: PS2 will pull away from the PS3 in 12 weeks when it hits it's holidays. Which is at week ~88 through ~98 in the aligned comparison you're using. Proof

FACT: PS2 was only on sale in Japan for the first 34 Weeks which is what caused this discrepency. Proof 

Again if you don't account for offset launches things can be missleading, one console can surge while another idles. All you are seeing is a holiday sales spike lifting the PS3 up to the level of the PS2 temporarily, the only reason it did catch up is because as I said the PS2 didn't have a stellar first year. Take a look at this graph to see what I mean about the PS2's slow start. If you're going to use the PS2 as a barometer you need to understand the structure of its life. A console being on par with the PS2's early life is not unprecedented by any means. The GC, 360, Xbox, and PS3 all kept up for the first 40 weeks before falling behind.

By your logic the fact that at week 45 the Wii was more than double the PS2 in the aligned launches means that the Wii is destined to sell at least double the PS2. The Wii even managed to hold that pace all the way out to week 69 (the most recent week). But as this graph shows, the Wii isn't likely to maintain that ratio.

You know what...if you still don't believe me then I invite you to create a thread about it. I'm tired of explaining things to people too dedicated to the result they want to see anything else. I'll let everyone else explain why you're wrong since you don't want to believe me.

Rath, of course I prefer the PS3 since I do own one and enjoy the games. It's just natural for you to like and enjoy what you do own. ;)

DKII, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the PS3 also launch earlier in Japan then it did in the US? I thought it may have been a couple months, but may have only been like a week or two.

But, if the PS3 does have 5 more years before they think of releasing the "next" generation console, won't the costs of the PS3 drop considerably to where it could be considered a "budget" console at that time? Some who have a PS2 and no other current generation console may be enjoying the PS2 and its game library awaiting for the PS3 to drop further in price, or their financial situation to improve to buy one. But again, that doesn't mean that they will for sure buy a PS3, just that they are waiting their time to get it when it fits their budget better for any of the newer consoles.

Myself I do consider handhelds a completely different creature then consoles as they are portable and used in many places that cannot support a console easily, and in many cases, to keep the kids busy while driving or doing other things. I have a PSP, but I never use it unless I'm traveling and on vacation. It fits a completely different need for me and never sees use at home unless I am looking to go and use the remote play feature to enjoy some videos from another room.