Tachikoma said: Cloudman said: That is true that it`s extra content available on day 1, but I wouldn`t necessarily call that a scam. They aren`t cutting out extra goods to pay extra for them, but attaching it to amiibo as an unlockable. While true you have to buy the figurines to get them, but resource had to go into making those, so it`s not like Ninten is making quick extra money. You`re getting something more than just the extras, but a figurine as well, which you can use however you like. For some, they may want the figures anyway, so it`s more a bonus than forced extras to get. I can`t really put this and day 1 DLC in the same light. Digital DLC costs money to make, too.

Well, I`m meaning in the sense that the extras in question where made with the original budget or essential to making the game a complete product, as Sakurai stated. I don`t mean Digital DLC that was made post production.

pokoko said: Cloudman said: How is this Day 1 DLC? Those are physical goods you can get if you want. They do have extra costumes in them, but they are collectable goods you can get or not. I don`t really see how this is Day 1 DLC. It's ... DLC that is avaliable for a fee on Day One.  Day One DLC. I mean, you can get them or not?  That's true for all DLC.  They're literally developing DLC and putting it on toys so more people will buy them.  Exactly as he said, they're doing it on Day One because that's where the money is at.

And why do you assume Sakurai isn't criticizing that? Your problem is you account Sakurai for Nintendo. He isn't. He has left Nintendo some years ago. He did now two games for Nintendo (while basically one of it was in reality working for Namco Bandai) and another game without involvement of Nintendo. I think saying a hypocrite because of other stuff Nintendo does is unfair, because he isn't Nintendo. As far as I know Splatoon is included in his remarks.

Tachikoma said: Goodnightmoon said: We are talking about one of the most complete fighting games ever done. 54 fighters is an epic number.  That would be MUGEN. (which is free, too) As it currently has 2307 fighters to choose from. http://mugen.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Characters

I don't think the comparison is completely fair here, as it is user generated content over the course of more than 10 years.

EDIT: For instance, would you credit Intelligent Systems with releasing one of the most complete Puzzle-games because of the thousand of user-created levels?

teigaga said: Isn't he charging for Lucas and Mewtwo?

After a 50 character roster. How many did Killer Instinct or MKX give you?

RolStoppable said: Aren't they selling Mii costumes for SSB4? If yes, shouldn't Sakurai shut up?

DLC is a company business/marketing discussion, not a developer discussion. They just make the game....the suits decide which wall that gameplay/content goes behind.

Tachikoma said: ReimTime said: Tachikoma said: Goodnightmoon said: We are talking about one of the most complete fighting games ever done. 54 fighters is an epic number.  That would be MUGEN. (which is free, too) As it currently has 2307 fighters to choose from. http://mugen.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Characters o.O I imagine most of them are quite similar in move sets and playstyle though? not really, check it out on youtube, most have very unique combat syles, moves and specials (even finishing moves, too)

So would it be one of the most complete fighters to come from a AAA developer.

spemanig said: Cloudman said: Here, it`s a matter of the timing of the release of the DLC rather than the pricing in itself. Games with dlc shortly after DLC does seem to be cutting content from the game vs dlc later on. It can make a game look incomplete when DLC is done in this way. In the sense for smash, it doesn`t feel that way since the DLC is being released much later in the game`s release and the game itself contains enough to feel complete, and not the company cutting content to make extra money. And I say this feeling that the amoung they plan to change for future characters is too much and just as bad. See, I don't feel that just because a particular form of DLC isn't cutting content out of the core game, that it suddenly means that it's good DLC. It's still a product with value placed on it, and as a product you're supposed to pay for, the pricing of this stuff is bullshit, especially when Mario Kart 8 is standing right next to it with what is an absolute steal value wise. In MK8, you're getting what amounts to $30 worth of content for $12. It should cost at least twice what they're charging in MK8, yet Smash gets off charging 4x the value of a character. You know why can they get away with it? Because the first one was free if you bought both, so most people aren't taking notice. And that's as dirty as it gets to me.

You might consider it overpriced (I'll gladly pay for it, though Mewtwo was free to me) but overpriced doesn't equal scam.

A scam to me is deceiving people into buying stuff they should have in the original game to begin with. Smash character DLC is all post launch development.

Also keep in mind that features they announced before release, such as stage sharing have been added for free. Tournament mode is also coming for free, just like the Miiverse stage I think.

No Sakurai san you cannot generalize all DLC the same, there are good one, decent one, and bad one, and all equally divide.

spemanig said: Charging $4 for one character in a $60 party brawler is a "scam," Sakurai. Let's not act like your DLC is above scum. We'll see how it is when all the DLC is out. Right now, we potentially know of at least five DLC characters, Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu, and one fan chosen fighter. If we assume that each fighter is $4 like with Mewtwo, you're paying $20 for only FIVE characters in a game where you're paying $60 for like 50. These characters are barely worth $1 a pop, let alone $4. "But oh, it's sacred Smash DLC! Mario Kart 8 handled DLC fantastic - must mean that every Nintendo game is the same!" /s

This was bothering me for a while but eventually it just clicked. Basic economics says that with a little design sense the process for character design can be streanlined to get more characters in the game for lower development costs. Add to that the likely reduced number of potential consumers to make the money back from and everything balances.

 

The only really viable alternative is Smash 5 which would split the online playerbase.

teigaga said: Isn't he charging for Lucas and Mewtwo?

Isn't Lucas a useless clone of Ness?