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Forums - Gaming - Why Souls games shouldn't have an easy or normal mode

 

What do you think about the difficulty on the souls games

I like the challenge 61 69.32%
 
i hate it... 27 30.68%
 
Total:88
RCTjunkie said:
How about this?

Hard mode: No hints

Normal Mode: Signs/hints that alert what is coming (Danger: Arrows ahead)

Easy Mode: Alert what is coming and hint to overcome it (Danger: Arrows ahead. Avoid Left door)

If you played the game, you encountered messages:

http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/online#toc3

These messages are part of the experience. You would make them pointless in easy mode. You wouldn't put messages and wouldn't recommend them, so you would not get the health-boost. So hard mode is easier? Because you still have the warning and get health-boosts.

 



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vivster said:

Then the thread title is completely off the mark^^ Because now you're saying the opposite as long as it leaves the rest of the game intact.

I propose to you following thread: "Why I fear that the inclusion of easy modes will prompt the devs to also alter the hard mode"

See, that's why we have these useful discussions on here :)

that new tittle for the thread would indeed focus on the real "problem" but the thing is that i didnt even talk about this problem in the OP nor did i mentioned it on the tittle, so i would have to change the whole thread, all because i didnt focused on the real problem which is what you just said, "Why I fear that the inclusion of easy modes will prompt the devs to also alter the hard mode".

so i guess there is nothing to do now :/



RCTjunkie said:

It doesn't even have to be an explicit hint. Maybe have dead bodies near a trap to show it's not a good idea (They might do this already, I don't know).

The bloodstains might tip you off.

http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/online#toc4

Souls is already on easy mode confirmed!



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vkaraujo said:

I can point to Fire Emblem: Awakening as an example:
 The casual mode, that removes perma deaths, most likely was key to the sucess of this title. The classic mode was still there for those who wanted it. 

Fire Emblem is a bad example, because difficulty is not that much decided by the level-design. You can keep the same level-design and only change the difficulty of the enemies for an easy/hard mode.

But try to make an easy mode for Sokoban. There are hard levels or easy levels in Sokoban, but in no way you can make a hard level easier.



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Simple solution is to just keep the 2 communities completely separate online play wise. If someone wants to enjoy the story and play with the enemies doing less damage and their attacks doing more then why not let them? It doesn't effect your regular mode playthroughs at all. You'd never see them and your game would be just as hard. It would keep the balance for the hard mode. Trophies would tell you who was the wusses and who was the hardcore players.




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Mnementh said:
vivster said:

I think you have the wrong assumption here. No one is asking for a kiddie mode where you can't die ever. You seem to only know the two extremes between very hard and very easy. Believe me, even just making the health bar double as big an the potions double as effective goes a very long way. Then you could reduce the negative effects of dying. All this can be done with a push of a switch without affecting anything ingame. Yes, people will die due to mean traps and the way the game is designed. But if they're not completely brain dead they will only fall once for a trap. That's the charm of the game. I mean look at Minesweeper. It also has instant failure states that are not the players fault. Yet it's not described as a very difficult game. What makes it difficult is the timer.

I think you don't really understand here. You think about games, where the difficulty comes from the enemies. Give them less HP and let them deal less damage and they are easier. But this isn't working that easy on the souls-games. The level-design is part of the difficulty. Let's think a moment, how would you make Mario an easier game? Goombas only have half of the HP? What would that change. Let Mario jump higher? Do you think it would be the same game anymore?

Looking over the thread you have people saying from themself they are enjoying the game standing in opposition to the idea of an easy mode. People who claim they dislike souls are infavor of an easy mode. It could be of importance, that the people who like it may have played it a bit more. We can see, that an easy mode makes no difference (Goombas have only half the HP) or would change the game (Mario jumps double as high).

So, say, how would you add an easy mode to Donkey Kong, Shovel Knight or Sokoban?

Those are different games and not part of this topic as I described how DS could be easier. I played DS and it was not the environment that did me in. It was the enemies and the punishing stats after death that did it. Also the non existant tutorial.

As for jumpnruns. Shovel Knight and Mario aren't even hard to begin with. Shovel knight even has added challenges to make it more difficult.

But to make those less difficult it depends. More checkpoints within the games, more lives, less damaging enemies. Make it run slower is probably a great help generally for all those slef moving levels. Those make it not impossible to fail but at least easier to succeed. And also will not affect game design in the slightest.

Sokoban is a puzzle. The only redeeming quality of a puzzle is the challenge itself or it wouldn't be a puzzle. So I don't see a reason for people wanting to play it other than challenge.

Mario, DK, DS all have qualities above just the challenge that are enticing to less skilled players.



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in Souls games easier difficulty would comprimise the vision for the game concept, there is no fun in the games if you can advance by spamming attacks, because they aren't made with an extensive combo/fight system

the fun in Souls games is facing these really frightening battles against enemies that can kill you easily, yet winning out due to careful observation and planing as well as crisis management when an enemy attack does hit you and you have to regain your calmness even though the odds have become a bit grimmer



This post.

The Souls games are games where you have to learn and adapt to everything about them. You can't just go blazing in, expecting to win like that.

The game may be hard at first, but once you do get the hang of it, and beat the bosses and what not, you feel a strong sense of accomplishment that no other game provides, and a difficulty switch would ruin that sense of accomplishment.



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vivster said:

Those are different games and not part of this topic as I described how DS could be easier. I played DS and it was not the environment that did me in. It was the enemies and the punishing stats after death that did it. Also the non existant tutorial.

As for jumpnruns. Shovel Knight and Mario aren't even hard to begin with. Shovel knight even has added challenges to make it more difficult.

But to make those less difficult it depends. More checkpoints within the games, more lives, less damaging enemies. Make it run slower is probably a great help generally for all those slef moving levels. Those make it not impossible to fail but at least easier to succeed. And also will not affect game design in the slightest.

Sokoban is a puzzle. The only redeeming quality of a puzzle is the challenge itself or it wouldn't be a puzzle. So I don't see a reason for people wanting to play it other than challenge.

Mario, DK, DS all have qualities above just the challenge that are enticing to less skilled players.

Sure they are different games, but the point is, demons souls is different to other games too. I don't know about a stat penalty though, I only played Demon's souls. You lose your souls and get a penalty on HP, that's all. Does Dark Souls add a penalty to your stats too?

So, you say the quality of a puzzle is the challenge. But that's exactly the quality of Souls too.



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I've been put off Souls games in the past because of the difficulty. From what people say, the difficulty is more fair than most, but when I hear that your health bar can get halved and halved again in certain situations if you make mistakes makes me not want to bother even trying.

Bloodborne will be my first game in the series. Combat is more offensive than the previous games which sounds more appealing. An easier difficulty option would make it an easy purchase, knowing that I could still see the entire game if I really can't do it, or not have the patience to do it.