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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Miyamoto: 'What can games learn from film? Nothing'

Rafux on 12 November 2014
MDMAlliance said:
Rafux said:
Mnementh said:
Rafux said:

Games use art in them buy they are not art in itself, games are toys like monopoly or dungeon and dragons. Google Kojima on the subject, art can be anything but games are toys therefore they must be fun to play first and above all.

There I doesn't read that games are not art. Something that makes fun can be very well art. And you cite Kojima, there did Miyamoto said something about games as artform? You take things too far if you conclude from a focus on fun, that fun-things aren't art. I think you don't understand art very well.

Learn to read, art can be anything it can be fun but it also doesnt have to be fun to be art, it can be anything.

Games HAVE to be fun above all, thats the catch. A game can't be just an expression and have no fun gameplay mechanics at all it would not be a game at all. Games have literature, drawings and music yet they just use them like a museum would use art to atract viewers but the museum is not art in itself.

Belive what you want though.

I kind of think you're wrong on this a little.  Games do not necessarily HAVE to be fun.  Example are horror games.  People do not play them for fun, they play them for the experience.  I think the real requirement for a game is that it has to be engaging. 

Horror games HAVE fun mechanics which goes from blasting throught waves of zombies to escaping from supernatural boss. If people only care about the experience they would just go to the horror house at the carnival or watch screamers on youtube.

The requieremente is fun and challenge can't be more basic than that.



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Rafux on 12 November 2014
bubblegamer said:
Miyamoto just confirms what we've all been saying for a long time, he makes games for children, not adults. Knowing that makes you understand his views, which is why he wishes there were children in the room.


Whats so wrong about Miyamoto making games for children? Video games are toys you know?



Mnementh on 12 November 2014
Rafux said:
Mnementh said:
Rafux said:
Mnementh said:
Rafux said:
I love Miyamoto! So glad you and Kojima agree games are not art. Games should be fun above all.

Where did he(or Kojima) said games are no art. There are many art-forms without story, paintings for instance. They are still art.

Games use art in them buy they are not art in itself, games are toys like monopoly or dungeon and dragons. Google Kojima on the subject, art can be anything but games are toys therefore they must be fun to play first and above all.

There I doesn't read that games are not art. Something that makes fun can be very well art. And you cite Kojima, there did Miyamoto said something about games as artform? You take things too far if you conclude from a focus on fun, that fun-things aren't art. I think you don't understand art very well.

Learn to read, art can be anything it can be fun but it also doesnt have to be fun to be art, it can be anything.

Games HAVE to be fun above all, thats the catch. A game can't be just an expression and have no fun gameplay mechanics at all it would not be a game at all. Games have literature, drawings and music yet they just use them like a museum would use art to atract viewers but the museum is not art in itself.

Belive what you want though.

So you don't believe games are art? I don't agree on that. Also I still don't see, how Kojima or Miyamoto said that, that's what you stated in the beginning.



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Mnementh on 12 November 2014
Wright said:

That, I don't agree. Anyone can learn something from anything. Especially an art form from a different art form.

I don't see the quote from the title in the article itself. What Miyamoto is actually quoted with is more different, he feels it is a problem that gamemakers focus on story before gameplay.



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Drakrami on 12 November 2014

Yet, one of the best games of our generation, thelastofus, was inspired by the movie No Country for Old Men.

Gaming has gone on the route of increasing production values first. What is production value? Amazing set pieces, good story, good graphics. You can see all of these in major titles such as Call of Duty, or Assassin's Creed. What Miyamoto is saying is basically the exact opposite of what the gaming industry is focused on. Is his opinion wrong? Maybe Not. But should be speaking like he, himself, is the gaming industry, nope.



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Mnementh on 12 November 2014
KLAMarine said:
Teeqoz said:
KLAMarine said:
Teeqoz said:


"What the other companies are doing makes business sense,” he says. “But it’s boring. The same games appear on every system."

Sounds more like he was sharing his opinion.

An arrogant opinion.

So if we opinionate that a game, book, or movie is boring for example, is that an arrogant opinion?

And he doesn't even do that. He said missing diversity is boring. He didn't even say the games in question are boring.



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Mike_L on 12 November 2014
Zekkyou said:

A surprisingly small minded view coming from someone so creative.

Gaming is an expansion medium for entertainment; there's room for all kinds of games. Some people enjoy games like Heavy Rain that try to immerse them in a story. Some just want something like Mario, LBP or Viva Pinata that they can just jump into and enjoy. Others want games like MGS or TLOU, that have a bit of both.

As long as it's something people enjoy, it's worth making. I don't have much time for those that believe the world should warp itself to be exactly to their liking.



Mnementh on 12 November 2014
pokoko said:
“I have never thought of games as a means of storytelling.”

There we have it. This is why I find Nintendo boring. This is why I abandoned Nintendo consoles and never looked back. They leave my imagination drifting and disengaged. I grew up with reading as a hobby, with narrative and storytelling always close at hand; a typical Nintendo game, to me, is devoid of soul and lacking in magic. There is no depth, nothing to entangle you in that world. It's a flat, uninspiring, and static experience for me.

Which is fine, actually. Some people like that. What isn't fine is the ignorance some people show by saying the Nintendo way is the "right way". That's bullshit. Absolute bullshit. It's just one way of many. If the Nintendo way was the only way, I'd leave gaming--again, actually, as the SNES left me cold until I found FFVI, a game that blew me away with complex characters and an interesting storytelling.

Nintendo could never have made ICO, which changed gaming for me. They could never have made Valkyria Chronicles, the most memorable game I played last gen, which genuinely had me in tears and thinking about it for days after. They could never have made BioShock, Deus Ex, or Fallout 3, could never have made Mass Effect or Dragon Age. I give thanks to the gaming gods that developers looked beyond the limited vision of Nintendo, or else I wouldn't even be here.

Nintendo's arrogance amazes me. They look around at all these people who are fucking ENJOYING THEMSELVES playing other types of games and they act like somehow everyone is doing it wrong. It's not wrong if they're having fun, Nintendo. It's just you who are narrow-minded. I'm really starting to dislike Nintendo; not because of their games but because of their attitude.

It is really funny that you mention Ico, because it is exactly what Miyamoto says is the right way. Ico isn't building emotion through story. It does lack pretty much story. It is building an emotional bond from the player through the hero he controls to the girl by giving the player the task to protect her. So it is exactly what Miyamoto tries to promote: emotion through gameplay. If you say Ico is a game that stands against Miyamotos ideas, you didn't really understood what he said.



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Mnementh on 12 November 2014
ClassicGamingWizzz said:
Arrogant and closed minded.

Imagine a world where games never had a story, well developed characters , only gameplay ... what a boring medium.

the good thing about gaming is that we have so any things for all tastes and its sad sometimes people hating in a genre or a type of game just because their console of choice barely or never makes games of that genre.

Well then it is a good thing, Miyamoto never said anything against having story or characters in games. Hint: Read the actual article instead of the clickbait-title.



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Mnementh on 12 November 2014
t3mporary_126 said:

Edit (to those who think the thread title is misleading or there is a lack of context): I do think the thread title is misleading but I read the entire article and it doesn't justify how Miyamoto labeled other people's game as "boring."

Also here: he didn't say other games are boring, he says an environment where most of the games are alike is boring.



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