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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Miyamoto: 'What can games learn from film? Nothing'

Jon-Erich said:
bubblegamer said:
No wonder Nintendo is suffering so terribly lately. So many close minded people in charge of it!


That has nothing to do with Miyamoto and his games. It wasn't his fault the Wii U was marketed so poorly. It wasn't his fault that third parties abandoned the Wii U. Also, most games NIntendo releases aren't even his games. I must also point out that Nintendo's games tend to have a high attach rate and have fewer games sold on the second hand market than most publishers. So they must be doing something right.

There are also getting less relevant with each passing year so they must be doing something bad. Don't kid yourself however much of a presence Nintendo may have, it's nothing compared to what it was 20 years ago. The industry changed, they never did.



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Blob said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Shadow of the Colossus told a frantic story of love and desperation on par with movies without a script. Sony Japan for you Miyamoto. Sony learned to how to tell a story using gameplay. Don't know anything about that?

You know thats exactly what he's saying right? The story didnt take you out of the gameplay.


I grew up with Nintendo and the only emotions i've ever felt while playing their games are either complete fun, joy or frustration. Once I went Sony, by the time I got to the PS2 and popped in SOTC, it wasnt completely about the fun any longer and not even in a zelda sense. Paper thin story, but the gameplay told the story in a fashion that almost brought me to tears. The soft symphony changing to urgent music and even terror while, hanging on for dear life.  The moments of having your bar run out and thinking "Damn, I would do anything to say this girl" wait a second "Why am I thinking this" or even "Why is this guy going to climb a Titan the size of a skyscraper? This is the most realistic love that will even show itself in a videogame through gameplay". This guy took on Colossi on land, air and sea and even ones who rose to the heavens. All you had was a bow, sword and horse and pure heart. It had the action of and suspense in the sense of a movie even though it wasn't. It was almost as if it matured a formula that was more akin with Zelda, because I looked at Sotc as a poor mans zelda until I actually played it and found that it gave me a feeling Zelda could never give me. It cannot replace Zelda, but it was in its own special place in my heart. With Nintendo I was just rescuing the helpless princesses in most cases, but in Sotc it was different. It showed me why I did it and pushed the boundaries of how your actions could tell the story in its truest essence.

I am an RPG player and exposition gives sense of purpose, which is why many thought Titanfall sucked ass or could've been something more. People would've continued to play if they had an invested interest in what the whole world is about and even COD gave you more. COD is a game with many parts but still at least has a story and in gaming today it is very important. I find the gameplay in Titanfall to be more fun than COD, but COD has something addictive outside of just the gameplay and it is a sense of purpose in understand what I am doing and why I am doing it. Today games are borderline on par with movies and are setting the pace to surpass this because you play the game, sometimes you're even allowed to shape the story by playing. Once more, this is why I love RPGs and JRPG's. 

The modern videogame has evolved to where story is no longer secondary for some, its chief reason to inspire people to game. GTA5 was one of my favorites ever. I mean I loved the crazy gameplay, but the story was just as crazy as the gameplay but managed to not be as stupid as Saints Row. There was a professionalism and art form to doing it even though I killed people how I wanted. Gears of War, Metal Gear Solid, Halo and Uncharted could all be created quicker if there was no storyline, but would you care to invest without the story? No. Its what makes the next generation of characters opposed to Nintendo Dear to the hearts of another generation.

As I said before, Miyamoto came from an era where games were games and just were not fleshed out and I am thinking that hes just not able to see past the function which might be part of Platos philosophy of beauty. They were not evolved and maybe his mind is just not reason to accept that yet even though he helped them evolved. Sometimes the older generation needs to just be left to that ideal because what is defined as art changed with the generations as art is evolved and inspired by life. At one time games were not art, but now they are. Case in point, Hideo Kojima will deny to this day that games are art while his games are in the Smithsonian with the likes of Shadow of the Colossus. He's saying all of these things while having ripped off the likes of Popeye, King Kong & Disney movies. He came from an era where games had not evolved and was responsible for the evolutionary steps, but again generational thing. Some show open mindedness to the fact that the next generation think differently, but others don't.

Motivation is not the enemy of reasons for playing a game.

Motivation is what makes sports teams battle each other, or artists work to make the greatest of pieces despite their competition.

When professional wrestling hit its peak in the late 90's  to the mid 20's it was because of a special cast of wrestlers in that created the drama that even cannot be replaced today. Actually one of the major reasons people cannot stand pro wrestling today is because its being tailor made for kids, instead of for teens to adults with elaborate storylines. The wrestling matches told stories and even the greatest of wrestlers are considered story tellers if many have not noticed.

Heading back to motivation, games are motivation in themselves for the one who wants to be challenged, but what if you add a story? It becomes larger than what it was before. There is even more motivation and even an emotional involvement.

The sad part about this is that Miyamoto refuses to harbor emotions that an adult to teenage audience demand in attempt to find the childlike nature of things and this is one of the major things holding Nintendo back from evolving. This is exactly why Disney is buying up prime real estate, to survive. 

At one time I felt that Nintendo had abandoned me even though I still love their games in the philosophical sense of aging and becoming an adult and Miyamoto has only helped me to realize this. I will continue to play his games as I love them though.



Some people want challenging gaming experiences.
Some people want straighful interactive stories.

While I do believe there´s room for both in the videogame market, they´re completely different approaches. I personally don´t like games that focus too much on story and present almost or no challenge for the player



Maraccuda said:
LOL
A lot of people who didnt read the article. Also shows a hell of a lot of anti-Nintendo in this thread.

True. The headline states something that he didn´t actually say.



Zekkyou said:

A surprisingly small minded view coming from someone so creative.

Gaming is an expansion medium for entertainment; there's room for all kinds of games. Some people enjoy games like Heavy Rain that try to immerse them in a story. Some just want something like Mario, LBP or Viva Pinata that they can just jump into and enjoy. Others want games like MGS or TLOU, that have a bit of both.

As long as it's something people enjoy, it's worth making. I don't have much time for those that believe the world should warp itself to be exactly to their liking.


This.

Games like TLOU and MGS elevated gaming and made gamers actually 'feel' something. It added a whole nother dimension. One that was never experienced whilst Mario was saving the princess. Both directions have their place in gaming but to exclude one and basically say it has zero merit is ignorant. Probably why Nintendo have been tanking...



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outlawauron said:

It's just entirely hypocritical, because Nintendo games don't do that either. In fact, I don't see how non-narrative games are more immersive than games trying to tell a story. If anything, it's the opposite. 


Because those games are playing to the strengths of the medium and doing something that can't be done anywhere else. The story isn't neccessary to create a fantastic and unique experience. They aren't trying to get their point across through story. That is the difference. I'm not saying that games have one bag of tricks that all games should pull from, I'm saying that those who try to make story oriented games try to pull from cinema's bag of tricks instead of tapping into the bag of tricks for story based games that few games pull from.

S.T.A.G.E. said:

Shadow of the Colossus told a frantic story of love and desperation on par with movies without a script. Sony Japan for you Miyamoto. Sony learned to how to tell a story using gameplay. Don't know anything about that?


...I think that is what Miyamoto is asking for. Making a moving experience that the player is actively creating by playing the game instead of being a passive observer running from cutscene to cutscene.

Rafux said:

Horror games HAVE fun mechanics which goes from blasting throught waves of zombies to escaping from supernatural boss. If people only care about the experience they would just go to the horror house at the carnival or watch screamers on youtube.

The requieremente is fun and challenge can't be more basic than that.


I have to disagree with you here... Horror games have a different set of tools to use, and often those tools are making the controls awkward or having the player doing very little in the game (just walk around this creepy house for 30 minutes with no enemies and no real goal). 

Just look at a lot of old horror games. They were hard to control and frustrating and awkward and all of that created the horror experience. Or look at PT...where are the fun mechanics there? All you are really doing is walking around in circles, but gamers loved it.

You are describing action horror, the modern horror that forgot that horror doesn't need to be fun. Dig into a lot of indie stuff or your classic stuff and you wont really be having fun, but you may be scared out of your mind and that was the goal all along.

Additionally, I personally don't have any fun in competitive online shooter games. They piss me off to no end, but I play them for the experience and the competition. I wouldn't describe that as fun.

Also look at some story based games. There are quite a few indie games that I've played that were super sad from begining to end....I wouldn't really describe those as fun if I never cracked a smile, but I would still say that they were good games.

I think you are mixing up "fun" with "enjoyment". Fun is a very specific emotion that is most often seen in games like Mario and rarely seen in games like Dark Souls. Enjoyment is a much broader term that just really means that you liked what you played....



sundin13 said:

S.T.A.G.E. said:

Shadow of the Colossus told a frantic story of love and desperation on par with movies without a script. Sony Japan for you Miyamoto. Sony learned to how to tell a story using gameplay. Don't know anything about that?


...I think that is what Miyamoto is asking for. Making a moving experience that the player is actively creating by playing the game instead of being a passive observer running from cutscene to cutscene.



"Afterwards, the assembled critics and journalists give the film a warm round of applause, but for Miyamoto, who takes to the stage, it’s clear that something is missing. “You were all very quiet,” he says. “I was hoping to hear more laughter.” Then his eyes scan the crowd, sitting with notebooks on laps, and he smiles to himself, having identified the problem. “Perhaps we needed more children here,” he says."

I believe this should help Miyamoto understand his issue. He aims for the wrong audience and his expectations are not on level with what he creates. He needs to accept that the majority of his fanbase has grown up.



LOL Miyamoto´s games don´t sell....
His 3DS games like Mario Kart 7, Animal Crossing, NSMB2 barely surpassed 07 million physical copies sold... yeah.... those must be really really bad numbers. :P



What can people learn when they read more than just the thread title?

To not make childish comments.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


Miyamoto "The same games appear on every system."

 

Just like how there is a bunch of Mario and friend games appearing only on Nintendo year after year.



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