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Forums - Gaming - Is PS4 going the wrong direction?

DarkD on 03 August 2014
DonFerrari said:
DarkD said:
DonFerrari said:

thx I have my answer... you don't have any idea what you are talking about... Sony in life support put more exclusives, get more third support, dev a stronger system with cheaper price/flop, than others. but your answer is that we should instead support the company that wanted to rip us, and that nintendo flopped because it got sucessfull the last gen... So maybe that is the brilliant conclusion why PS3 flopped, people hated it because PS2 was sucessfull... and I already posted a thread on why WiiU got a rise in sales and it was a consensus that it have to do with MK8 getting attention not ps4/x1 flumbing (as both also got increased sales when WiiU rose).


Yes Mario Kart 8 was the thing that triggered it, but it wouldn't be holding if Sony and Microsoft weren't fumbling the ball.  

Yes I agree that Microsoft tried to screw us over with DRM, however I'm not convinced that Sony wasn't planning to as well.  There's a lot of people who have said that Sony was initially going to put DRM in their console, but pulled out at the last second after seeing Microsoft's reaction.  There's only third party quotes on that, so evidence doesn't really exist, however I seriously doubt Sony is innocent in this.  

As far as Kinect goes, Sony is just as guilty as Microsoft, the only difference is that Sony "Move" was a straight up copy of the Wii remote so no one bought it.  I would hardly say that Microsoft was any greater of a villian than Sony in those instances.  

If it is because of Sony and Ms fumbles why have they also got a risen in their sales?

We had unthrustyworthy rumours throw after MS got exposed, I wouldn't put any weigth on it. On the february reveal they already had said "DRM is up to the publisher" when asked about DRM pratices... and we got the proof that it was baseless rumour when MS had to put a day one patch for it but you could play your PS4 without a day 1 patch. And in any law system you are innocent until proven otherwise so I can't think of a reason for you to try and frame Sony besides not liking them, and your posts here prove that.

I haven't said anything about Kinect. But Move is as much a copy of WiiMote as Kinect is from Eyetoy. Not that it is important.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/DRM-Xbox-One-PlayStation-4-Shuhei-Yoshida-Hiroshi-Kawano,23292.html

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/26/4465674/sce-japan-heads-discuss-the-ps4-e3-and-the-near-future

Uhh is that tomshardware is pretty reliable right?  Obviously I can't link to famitsu and find the original quote from Shuhei Yoshida, but that sounds pretty damning.  

Sony and Microsoft aren't anywhere close to where they should be sales wise.  The winning console should be sold out pretty much for the whole of the first year.  That's just basic history for games consoles.  



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DarkD on 03 August 2014
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
DarkD said:

Yes Mario Kart 8 was the thing that triggered it, but it wouldn't be holding if Sony and Microsoft weren't fumbling the ball.  

Yes I agree that Microsoft tried to screw us over with DRM, however I'm not convinced that Sony wasn't planning to as well.  There's a lot of people who have said that Sony was initially going to put DRM in their console, but pulled out at the last second after seeing the reaction Microsoft got from it.  There's only third party quotes on that, so evidence doesn't really exist, however I seriously doubt Sony is innocent in this.  

As far as Kinect goes, Sony is just as guilty as Microsoft, the only difference is that Sony "Move" was a straight up copy of the Wii remote so no one bought it.  I would hardly say that Microsoft was any greater of a villian than Sony in those instances.  

Get your story straight. You are the one that said that Nintendo would fumble out of the gate regardless. But they had an entire year to not fix the problem, by themselves as the only 8 gen console. That's can only be Nintendo's fault.

As for the immature copying thing, fyi there is no such thing as copy, its a common practice in electronics and buisness to apply the succesful techniques of your competitors, if we entertain this childish notion, the Move was for the PS3, they didn't make it mandatory for the PS4 so its nothing like what MS did with the Kinect 2.0.

And this whole Villian thing, is completely ludicrous. These are entertainment companies, specifically PS, Xbox, and Nintendo, not Sony or MS technically. In terms of morality, the extent to which they go is anti-consumer, which suxs but isn't as "evil" as other things consider so. Also these practices are universal to all of the Big 3, if you want to be impartial then you recognize that its all buisness, but if you want to ally yourself to companies that don't even know you exist, by all means go ahead. Just don't drag the rest of us with you on the trip down.

With your first point...  I think you need to reread some stuff because you should be able to answer that yourself...

I wasn't villifying anyone, you guys have been doing that to Microsoft all by yourself.  I was the one explaining why all three are equally evil.  If anything you just attacked your side with that one.  



DarkD on 03 August 2014
overman1 said:
DarkD said:
overman1 said:

If sony is dead, then I definitely dont know "the state" MS or Nintendo is in right now. lol

Fans are making up the slack? how exactly? by buying their console? 

isnt that the only way fan can vote for their prefered console?

sounds like you are very bitter....and I see you on a lot of Sony-hate thread....


Sony isn't dead, it's on life support.  Even now analysts still think its 50-50 that Sony just up and declares bankruptcy or sells everything in the next couple of years.  That atmosphere is bad for the consumer.  It's better to just let it go at that point.    

I'm bitter because I have to deal with bad and redundant arguments for this stuff.  For starters, everything you asked about, you should be able to answer yourself from the previous posts.

Dude Sony primary money source is insurance. you know that, right?

Sony movies? Sony TVs which still get them profit?

Dude, calm the hell down with all these "woe is Sony" stories. sheesh.

If the atmosphere is so bad, regardless the true is still he same: Sony is crushing MS in console sales whether you like it or not. By your logic the only way MS can beat Sony is if they were completely out of the picture . The Xbox 360 is losing to the PS3 even after a very strong headstart. The Xbox one is so far behind, the battle is between it and the Wii U now. Th PS4 is too much out of its league. MS NEVER  beat Sony in any generation, if Sony's Playstation ever goes out of picture today. they will alway have that over MS Xbox console. the Xbox never stood a chance, even when they are dealt a perfect hand.

So the only way  Ms can ever get ahead is if Sony goes bankrupt....which sorry wouldnt be happening soon, regardless of how much fanboys wish. 

I think you have gotten lost in this argument.  My original point that I made in my original post was that Nintendo and Microsoft would be able to reciprocate the fans better if they were in first place.  Everything else I've stated has been in response to bad questions.  You're the group that keeps on making me have to re-explain everything 5 times over again....



DonFerrari on 03 August 2014
DarkD said:
DonFerrari said:
DarkD said:


Yes Mario Kart 8 was the thing that triggered it, but it wouldn't be holding if Sony and Microsoft weren't fumbling the ball.  

Yes I agree that Microsoft tried to screw us over with DRM, however I'm not convinced that Sony wasn't planning to as well.  There's a lot of people who have said that Sony was initially going to put DRM in their console, but pulled out at the last second after seeing Microsoft's reaction.  There's only third party quotes on that, so evidence doesn't really exist, however I seriously doubt Sony is innocent in this.  

As far as Kinect goes, Sony is just as guilty as Microsoft, the only difference is that Sony "Move" was a straight up copy of the Wii remote so no one bought it.  I would hardly say that Microsoft was any greater of a villian than Sony in those instances.  

If it is because of Sony and Ms fumbles why have they also got a risen in their sales?

We had unthrustyworthy rumours throw after MS got exposed, I wouldn't put any weigth on it. On the february reveal they already had said "DRM is up to the publisher" when asked about DRM pratices... and we got the proof that it was baseless rumour when MS had to put a day one patch for it but you could play your PS4 without a day 1 patch. And in any law system you are innocent until proven otherwise so I can't think of a reason for you to try and frame Sony besides not liking them, and your posts here prove that.

I haven't said anything about Kinect. But Move is as much a copy of WiiMote as Kinect is from Eyetoy. Not that it is important.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/DRM-Xbox-One-PlayStation-4-Shuhei-Yoshida-Hiroshi-Kawano,23292.html

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/26/4465674/sce-japan-heads-discuss-the-ps4-e3-and-the-near-future

Uhh is that tomshardware is pretty reliable right?  Obviously I can't link to famitsu and find the original quote from Shuhei Yoshida, but that sounds pretty damning.  

Sony and Microsoft aren't anywhere close to where they should be sales wise.  The winning console should be sold out pretty much for the whole of the first year.  That's just basic history for games consoles.  


I don't know tomshardware but if it was part of interview that exist it should be linked there. Anyway they didn't say they took out the DRM because of MS fumble, just that they saw how much the comunity cared about it. Meaning, they saw the opportunity for a jab.

So PS4 being the fastest selling console ever up to now (around 10M shipped as of June 30th) is a fumble that allowed WiiU to recover? fuck logic.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DarkD on 03 August 2014
DonFerrari said:
DarkD said:
DonFerrari said:
DarkD said:


Yes Mario Kart 8 was the thing that triggered it, but it wouldn't be holding if Sony and Microsoft weren't fumbling the ball.  

Yes I agree that Microsoft tried to screw us over with DRM, however I'm not convinced that Sony wasn't planning to as well.  There's a lot of people who have said that Sony was initially going to put DRM in their console, but pulled out at the last second after seeing Microsoft's reaction.  There's only third party quotes on that, so evidence doesn't really exist, however I seriously doubt Sony is innocent in this.  

As far as Kinect goes, Sony is just as guilty as Microsoft, the only difference is that Sony "Move" was a straight up copy of the Wii remote so no one bought it.  I would hardly say that Microsoft was any greater of a villian than Sony in those instances.  

If it is because of Sony and Ms fumbles why have they also got a risen in their sales?

We had unthrustyworthy rumours throw after MS got exposed, I wouldn't put any weigth on it. On the february reveal they already had said "DRM is up to the publisher" when asked about DRM pratices... and we got the proof that it was baseless rumour when MS had to put a day one patch for it but you could play your PS4 without a day 1 patch. And in any law system you are innocent until proven otherwise so I can't think of a reason for you to try and frame Sony besides not liking them, and your posts here prove that.

I haven't said anything about Kinect. But Move is as much a copy of WiiMote as Kinect is from Eyetoy. Not that it is important.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/DRM-Xbox-One-PlayStation-4-Shuhei-Yoshida-Hiroshi-Kawano,23292.html

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/26/4465674/sce-japan-heads-discuss-the-ps4-e3-and-the-near-future

Uhh is that tomshardware is pretty reliable right?  Obviously I can't link to famitsu and find the original quote from Shuhei Yoshida, but that sounds pretty damning.  

Sony and Microsoft aren't anywhere close to where they should be sales wise.  The winning console should be sold out pretty much for the whole of the first year.  That's just basic history for games consoles.  


I don't know tomshardware but if it was part of interview that exist it should be linked there. Anyway they didn't say they took out the DRM because of MS fumble, just that they saw how much the comunity cared about it. Meaning, they saw the opportunity for a jab.

So PS4 being the fastest selling console ever up to now (around 10M shipped as of June 30th) is a fumble that allowed WiiU to recover? fuck logic.


OMG you're bringing up that broken point again...  I made a thread about that "fastest selling console ever" BS and it was pretty much conclusive that it's a BS title.  If a console is going to be in first place, then its guaranteed that they will sell out on launch day...  Is this news to you?  Because on launch day every store has lineups of 100 people waiting for a console, and only 10 of them usually end up with a console.  The only thing Sony did was stockpile their system for longer before launch....  

The logic is that there's more than one reason for a console to recover.  If all you attributed the recovery with is one great game, then you don't know anything about business.  These things work from a variety of angles.  Mario Kart triggered it, and MS and Sony carried it, and probably a half dozen other smaller reasons helped it.  I'm actually shocked you made a thread about the most obvious part of the whole recovery...



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DonFerrari on 03 August 2014
DarkD said:
DonFerrari said:
DarkD said:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/DRM-Xbox-One-PlayStation-4-Shuhei-Yoshida-Hiroshi-Kawano,23292.html

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/26/4465674/sce-japan-heads-discuss-the-ps4-e3-and-the-near-future

Uhh is that tomshardware is pretty reliable right?  Obviously I can't link to famitsu and find the original quote from Shuhei Yoshida, but that sounds pretty damning.  

Sony and Microsoft aren't anywhere close to where they should be sales wise.  The winning console should be sold out pretty much for the whole of the first year.  That's just basic history for games consoles.  


I don't know tomshardware but if it was part of interview that exist it should be linked there. Anyway they didn't say they took out the DRM because of MS fumble, just that they saw how much the comunity cared about it. Meaning, they saw the opportunity for a jab.

So PS4 being the fastest selling console ever up to now (around 10M shipped as of June 30th) is a fumble that allowed WiiU to recover? fuck logic.


OMG you're bringing up that broken point again...  I made a thread about that "fastest selling console ever" BS and it was pretty much conclusive that it's a BS title.  If a console is going to be in first place, then its guaranteed that they will sell out on launch day...  Is this news to you?  Because on launch day every store has lineups of 100 people waiting for a console, and only 10 of them usually end up with a console.  The only thing Sony did was stockpile their system for longer before launch....  

What are you talking about??? Latest report Sony shipped 10M PS4 up to June 30th, about 500k above Wii on the same timeframe... so I really don't get your point.

But why did you ignore the part about the DRM? You decided to read the links you posted maybe?? It is pretty clear that MS reveal gave them marketing Ideas, not that they decided to take DRM because of it. Just in case you decide to ignore I put a link for you.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/It-Official-Again-PS4-Has-DRM-Fees-Internet-Registration-Check-56594.html



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari on 03 August 2014
DarkD said:
DonFerrari said:
DarkD said:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/DRM-Xbox-One-PlayStation-4-Shuhei-Yoshida-Hiroshi-Kawano,23292.html

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/26/4465674/sce-japan-heads-discuss-the-ps4-e3-and-the-near-future

Uhh is that tomshardware is pretty reliable right?  Obviously I can't link to famitsu and find the original quote from Shuhei Yoshida, but that sounds pretty damning.  

Sony and Microsoft aren't anywhere close to where they should be sales wise.  The winning console should be sold out pretty much for the whole of the first year.  That's just basic history for games consoles.  


I don't know tomshardware but if it was part of interview that exist it should be linked there. Anyway they didn't say they took out the DRM because of MS fumble, just that they saw how much the comunity cared about it. Meaning, they saw the opportunity for a jab.

So PS4 being the fastest selling console ever up to now (around 10M shipped as of June 30th) is a fumble that allowed WiiU to recover? fuck logic.


OMG you're bringing up that broken point again...  I made a thread about that "fastest selling console ever" BS and it was pretty much conclusive that it's a BS title.  If a console is going to be in first place, then its guaranteed that they will sell out on launch day...  Is this news to you?  Because on launch day every store has lineups of 100 people waiting for a console, and only 10 of them usually end up with a console.  The only thing Sony did was stockpile their system for longer before launch....  

The logic is that there's more than one reason for a console to recover.  If all you attributed the recovery with is one great game, then you don't know anything about business.  These things work from a variety of angles.  Mario Kart triggered it, and MS and Sony carried it, and probably a half dozen other smaller reasons helped it.  I'm actually shocked you made a thread about the most obvious part of the whole recovery...


I made a thread because a journalist put an article defending that the WiiU rise in sells were more because lost interest in PS4/X1 than for Mk8 and Nintendo, conclusion of the thread.. the writer was completly wrong, Mk8 was the biggest reason.. yet you started saying it was because of sony/ms fumble then say it is obvious it was because of MK8 and other things just helped... how much are you going to change your point and still be wrong?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DarkD on 03 August 2014
DonFerrari said:

What are you talking about??? Latest report Sony shipped 10M PS4 up to June 30th, about 500k above Wii on the same timeframe... so I really don't get your point.

But why did you ignore the part about the DRM? You decided to read the links you posted maybe?? It is pretty clear that MS reveal gave them marketing Ideas, not that they decided to take DRM because of it. Just in case you decide to ignore I put a link for you.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/It-Official-Again-PS4-Has-DRM-Fees-Internet-Registration-Check-56594.html


Sony stockpiled and frontloaded the launch.  So the first few weeks they had really bloated numbers.  They led the Wii because of that, but in recent months that has died down significantly.  Or are you denying the sales numbers on this website?  Wii consistently sold something like 150 000 to 200 000 all through their first year.  Sony started high but has dropped down significantly since.  

I ignored the DRM point because it's argumentative.  Nothing to prove either side.  I think what I posted was pretty damning, you think its not...  What's more to argue?  I would be here all day if I kept batting a dead animal like that.  



DarkD on 03 August 2014
DonFerrari said:

I made a thread because a journalist put an article defending that the WiiU rise in sells were more because lost interest in PS4/X1 than for Mk8 and Nintendo, conclusion of the thread.. the writer was completly wrong, Mk8 was the biggest reason.. yet you started saying it was because of sony/ms fumble then say it is obvious it was because of MK8 and other things just helped... how much are you going to change your point and still be wrong?

Even if I fully explained everything, I would just get 5 people responding saying TL;DR then cherry picking some minor parts that they didn't like.  Then I would have to explain the whole thing over again anyways.  I'm already re-explaining the obvious for you as it is....  Why do I need a bigger headache.  I don't know if you've noticed, but people don't really look at the big picture on this site.  



DonFerrari on 03 August 2014
DarkD said:
DonFerrari said:

What are you talking about??? Latest report Sony shipped 10M PS4 up to June 30th, about 500k above Wii on the same timeframe... so I really don't get your point.

But why did you ignore the part about the DRM? You decided to read the links you posted maybe?? It is pretty clear that MS reveal gave them marketing Ideas, not that they decided to take DRM because of it. Just in case you decide to ignore I put a link for you.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/It-Official-Again-PS4-Has-DRM-Fees-Internet-Registration-Check-56594.html


Sony stockpiled and frontloaded the launch.  So the first few weeks they had really bloated numbers.  They led the Wii because of that, but in recent months that has died down significantly.  Or are you denying the sales numbers on this website?  Wii consistently sold something like 150 000 to 200 000 all through their first year.  Sony started high but has dropped down significantly since.  

I ignored the DRM point because it's argumentative.  Nothing to prove either side.  I think what I posted was pretty damning, you think its not...  What's more to argue?  I would be here all day if I kept batting a dead animal like that.  

So Sony sold 10M in June 30th because they stockpiled the launch (and were sold out up to May), and still is in some places? Yes sure... And I deny the numbers in this site since they are completely off since the beggining of the gen, PS4 is about 300-500k undertracked here. And to you if a console doesn't sell as good as Wii it fumbles, so if it sells bellow GC what is it doing?

I read your links, did you? Where does it prove or at least put a good argument on the issue? I sent you a different one that is a lot more direct and answer you. But if you want to ignore it so you can say you are right no problem to me... for you Sony can't be right and wouldn't be a good bet for customer because "they won't return your investiment"...

Tell me how MS and Nintendo returned your investment in their last 2 years of X360 and Wii.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."