I always knew Microsoft would stealthily try to bring back always online. Hopefully when it backfires on them again they'll learn their lesson for good this time.

The only things that could be offloaded without being affected by latency are things that are neither essential nor process intensive, i.e those process being offloaded would have no substaintial benefit.

network connections can easily go up to a couple of seconds, when real-time rendering needs at least 1/15 per frame to achieve a non powerpoint framerate

This is what fascinates me, since it is Sony who are starting a full-on streaming service. Then people on this thread say "Yes, but they use PS3´s for that service" as if Sony would stop their devlopment of streaming service the moment PS Now started. MS are honest about where they see the future. Sony agrees with them, they are just making the smart move of not telling everyone, but instead release PS Now.

I have seen that demo and that is exactly what people are afraid of. Everyone will prefer it if the consoles were just made to be strong enough to handle thing slike that inhouse as they always have as opposed to offloading certain typically inhouse code off to a server somewhere to reduce the performance hit on the inhouse console.

Why this cloud offloading is "scary" is cause it gives MS a legitimate excuse to require all games made for the system to be connected to the internet to run. Its one thing connecting so you can play multiplayer, its another thing connecting so your game can just run to begin with.Now even games that aren't using such a feature could claim to be using it and then sony would follow. It puts MS and sony in a position to stealth impose DRM. Its the first major step to always online gaming. Next thing you know is that you won't be able to play used games unless you pay a certain fee to "activate" the server based component of that used game you bought. All they have to do is "claim" that every game using the MS cloud has a $10 charge that the publishers have to pay but don't worry, that charge is all inclusive when you make your $60 purchase as long as you register the game to your XBL account. Then when someone buys used they will have to pay a seperate fee fr that online server access fee. If i can think of this, I am dead ceratin they have too.

Did you even look at what i was referencing?  Or is your mind just completely set in pessimistic mode on this subject?

fireburn95 said: pbroy said: Yeah, nobody gets what I'm saying. We are talking about Cloud here, not consoles. Cloud requires internet, regardless of what console it's on. The OP is talking about Cloud, then spins it into M$ DRM. I'll leave it at that. M$ is still evil, regardless. I'm sorry if I offended any of you. I take back anything I said. Please don't kick me out of the Sony fan club. well if a game requires cloud for its single player - it's always online. That's the cut-point fact of it. The hardware Ideally should be more than capable, especially in the first 3/4 years to run games natively off the console. Comparing what I said above to Playstation now is ridiculously off topic. PS Now is a cloud service for games streamed over internet. It needs internet. Native Single player games shouldn't need internet. It's fine if it has it embedded somehow (in the case of dark souls and watchdogs) but at least it should be playable offline. And if it requires too much off the cloud that it cant even run without it, questions must be asked. We can't ignore worries we have especially when we paid £380 for a console.

Your OP and thread title are misleading. The OP you quoted talks about Cloud and the ways it can be utilized. Then your thread title says: "How microsoft plan to stealthily bring back Always Online" Well duh, Captain Obvious. You need to be online to utilize the Cloud and its powers. Now if you said something like, "M$ is going to make games and if you are not online, it will not start and nobody told you it required internet." Then yeah, Lets bitch slap them bitches. Instead your OP is telling you straight up, " We are going to be utilzing Cloud services on future games." There is no stealth invloved there.

I haven't brought any arguement to this thread other than what you quoted in the OP and your thread title. Cloud requires Online and thats that. Where everyone else is quoting me and blah blah  is off-topic to anything I said.

I was only entertaining the silliness of the thread title. My comments might have been off-topic, but you made it that way.

Now if you want to go at it, lets go.

You quoted:

“Cloud Gaming is an overloaded term which is used to refer to an assortment of game distribution and monetization models. In this talk Microsoft will suggest that by thinking more in terms of the cloud and gaming, we can settle on a set of use cases for cloud computing technologies in gaming that embraces creating new or enhanced user experiences to the shift to Games-as-a-Service. In doing so we see more clearly how cloud will become a necessary part of every game.”

Wait, what?! Isn't that what Sony is doing with PS Now? Providing Games-as-a-Service on the Cloud?  So comparing what you posted with PS Now IS relevant. M$ is providing Games-as-a-Service too, just doing it differntly. You are buying a game that requires internet for algorithms. You might also get better graphics because the actual console is putting out the graphics. Maybe your character will just stand there if you lose connection. The whole idea of Games-as-a-Service might stink, but if that is the way Sony and M$ are heading, than what can you do? Buy Nintendo.

If you don't want always online, don't buy a game that requires always online elements. If it's a single player game that requires online and you don't like being online, then don't buy it. It's as simple as that. If a game requires Kinect or Eye Toy and you don't like those things, don't buy it. It's the same concept.

Of course the hardware should be able to handle everything without Cloud. The Cloud is only doing other things than providing extra sauce for graphics. You can't make a graphics card magically draw better graphics with Unicorn magic from the Cloud.

As far as DRM goes, M$ would be stupid if they put always online checks on future physical copies of games.

This question again? Tell me how are they going to make ps4 games run on PS3s?

Honestly, i wouldnt even notice if they did something like that.  My consoles have been always online since the start of last generation.  I wouldnt care at all, especially if the games get a positive benefit in performance because of it.  I definitely dont see it as something get all riled up about.

Why would it have to be ps4 games?  

Then what?