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Forums - Gaming Discussion - I honestly believe gaming PCs are becoming niche market

zarx said:
curl-6 said:

Likely people upgrading in the wake of PS4 and Xbone raising the standard.


And as more games start jump up to that new baseline it will drive even more adoption over the next couple years. Currently there are only a handfull of games that have next gen specs out right now, and most of them aren't really big sellers on PC. Battlefeild 4, ARMA 3 and Watch Dogs are the big ones so far, you may argue Metro: Last Light and Crysis 3 and a couple others but they weren't huge sellers. There really haven't been many real hardware pushers yet, most of the cross gen games scale down quite well. Over the next couple years you have games like Star Citizen, The Witcher 3, GTA V, Star Wars Battlefront, Rainbow Six: Seige, The Devision, Left 4 Dead 3 on Source 2 (there have been enough leaks), a next gen Bethesda game etc. Which will all drive a lot of PC hardware.

I never said otherwise. Though since the big money on AAA comes from consoles, I reckon high end PC gaming will still be a small slice of the gaming market.



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Tamron said:
curl-6 said:

PS4 and Xbone raised the baseline for multiplatform graphics though, Wii U didn't.

It raised the baseline for nintendo fans.

Very true. But I can't see this causing many Nintendo fans to run out and buy a high end gaming GPU.



Intrinsic said:

No worries, we all make mistakes. But finally. Something I can agree with and yet some here are arguing with me like I am crazy or something. I have never said what they are managing to accomplish on the dedicated GPU front is poor. Not once, all I have been saying is that its still a niche market. Its a growing niche market, but a niche market none the less.

And i kept guessing their annual revenue caus ei was just extrapolating from one quater since i didnt want to dig in to the number research. But my estimates were even much higher than what they actually make. Cause I gave them $8B lol. 

I will add though, when nvidia says GPUs in that report. They are not just talking about desktop GPUs. They are talking about discrete GPUs in general which a majority of goes into laptops and all in one PCs. A MAJORITY. So if they ship 65M GPUs, well over 55M of those are going to specific vendors to put into laptops or all in ones. 


Well I was never argueing that high end enthusiest PC wasn't niche, I was just pointing out evidence that shows it is growing not shrinking (becoming more niche) as the OP was suggesting. setting aside that high end enthusiest PC is a niche even inside PC gaming. You are the one who started arguing.

It should be noted that the rise of intergrated GPUs has basically killed Nvidia in the low end desktop and laptop markets. Nvidia have been largely forced upstream as the market for low end descrete GPUs drys up. Which makes Nvidia's growth all the more impressive. I mean Nvidia have a 51%+ market share on Steam yet a 16% marketshare across everything. High end gaming really is their bread and butter. Tho ofcourse they do sell the most at the mid and lower tiers $250 and below level stuff. The GTX 760 is the top card of the current generation on the Steam hardware survey for example.



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Intrinsic said:

No worries, we all make mistakes. But finally. Something I can agree with and yet some here are arguing with me like I am crazy or something. I have never said what they are managing to accomplish on the dedicated GPU front is poor. Not once, all I have been saying is that its still a niche market. Its a growing niche market, but a niche market none the less.

And i kept guessing their annual revenue caus ei was just extrapolating from one quater since i didnt want to dig in to the number research. But my estimates were even much higher than what they actually make. Cause I gave them $8B lol. 

I will add though, when nvidia says GPUs in that report. They are not just talking about desktop GPUs. They are talking about discrete GPUs in general which a majority of goes into laptops and all in one PCs. A MAJORITY. So if they ship 65M GPUs, well over 55M of those are going to specific vendors to put into laptops or all in ones. 

55M out of 65M would be 85%, 85% being mobile sales is way, way too high, it's also based off of Zarx calculating based on revenue versus aliexpress single unit price, so it would be 65m if you were paying single part prices, but higher if you were paying less per GPU, it's also using the assumption that the average unit price for each GPU was that of the GTX770, you can't have it both ways, you can't say 85% of sales are mobile then tack on the price of a much higher cost discrete gpu as the average.

So either the average price is lower because of the higher portion of mobile gpu's, driving up the overall GPUs per year sold, or the portion of mobile gpus isn't as high as you are guessing.

Would you agree that manufacturers buying GPU dies in bulk would be paying much less than single unit prices?

Even if you don't, after your high end 85% -are-mobile assumption, that still leaves 10m for nvidia, based on market share that would put AMD more or less between 10m-12m, so for PC as a whole, that's 20-22m GPUs sold based on the assumption that the number of GPU's sold in total were using the mean average of a high end GPU, even so, 20-22m per year is hardly niche.

At the same time, of the 85% are mobile guess of yours, a portion of those will also be high end laptop gpu's which as just as capable at gaming, so those would count towards the grand total of gaming-gpus, pushing that 20-22m/year figure higher.



PC gaming itself is a huge market. The "high end" market is somewhat small compared to PC gaming as a whole and consoles, but it's a decent sized market.



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eh.. PC gaming has always been niche. Mostly RTS, Life Sims, MOBA, & MMOs that come to mind that finds occasional success. Sure graphics and fps is great when talking about PC gaming capabilities, but most gamers could care less about paying out the ass to achieve such graphical fidelity.. and even then, most those games are graphic pretty.. but game play lacking. there's a reason why AAA/high budget games and devs tend to stick with or end up on consoles... they are more likely to guarantee sales there to recoup development cost/make profit. Also, with AAA and High Budget games on PC, they can only reach a small number of audience because the majority of PC gamers don't meet the minimum required specs to play such games. What AAA game on PC has ever achieved parity/surpassed in sales compared to their console counterparts? Outside of RTS, Sims, MOBA, & MMOs, nothing.. Not saying that PC gaming is bad, but I personally think PC gaming has always been niche.



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PC gaming is no longer about AAA games. Its more about free to play, moba / strategy and definitive versions of multiplats. Now you may only get 1 AAA game a year that really pushes pc hardware.



zarx said:
Intrinsic said:

No worries, we all make mistakes. But finally. Something I can agree with and yet some here are arguing with me like I am crazy or something. I have never said what they are managing to accomplish on the dedicated GPU front is poor. Not once, all I have been saying is that its still a niche market. Its a growing niche market, but a niche market none the less.

And i kept guessing their annual revenue caus ei was just extrapolating from one quater since i didnt want to dig in to the number research. But my estimates were even much higher than what they actually make. Cause I gave them $8B lol. 

I will add though, when nvidia says GPUs in that report. They are not just talking about desktop GPUs. They are talking about discrete GPUs in general which a majority of goes into laptops and all in one PCs. A MAJORITY. So if they ship 65M GPUs, well over 55M of those are going to specific vendors to put into laptops or all in ones. 


Well I was never argueing that high end enthusiest PC wasn't niche, I was just pointing out evidence that shows it is growing not shrinking (becoming more niche) as the OP was suggesting. setting aside that high end enthusiest PC is a niche even inside PC gaming. You are the one who started arguing.

It should be noted that the rise of intergrated GPUs has basically killed Nvidia in the low end desktop and laptop markets. Nvidia have been largely forced upstream as the market for low end descrete GPUs drys up. Which makes Nvidia's growth all the more impressive. I mean Nvidia have a 51%+ market share on Steam yet a 16% marketshare across everything. High end gaming really is their bread and butter.

I would guess they're doing fairly well with GPGPU and scientific computing. Everytime I look into molecular dynamics, they all use Nvidia GPUs and CUDA rather than OpenCL. Bit annoying for me with my HD 7870. I'm tempted to buy an Nvidia GPU next solely so I can use it for MD simulations (on top of some gaming ).

Basically, another niche but rapidly growing market.



kupomogli said:
I did one of Steam's survey's yesterday and looked at the results. Over90% of the PCs were weaker than an Xbox One.

Over 90% of the consoles still in use are weaker than an Xbox One, too. ;)

Why upgrade the GPU or CPU when all the games you want to play still run fine? You don't have to plan ahead to be on the safe side for the next 5 to 8 years, you can still buy the hardware later when you need it.

Oh and the share of the GPU-models in the June survey which aren't weaker than an XBO are more in the 20 - 25% range than in the 10% area.



OP is talking about supposed recent decline in high end PCs.No point posting sales data from 3 years ago.Any more recent stuff?