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Forums - Gaming - Do you think Microsoft has pissed off the industry like how Sega did with the Saturn?

 

Do you think the industry is annoyed with Microsofts inability to stick to a gameplan?

Yes 227 49.78%
 
No 177 38.82%
 
See results 49 10.75%
 
Total:453
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

When you're done baiting and actually on topic, then perhaps you can continue the discussion.

I'm unconcerned with your subjective opinion.

I simply made a claim of my own opinion about whether or not MS has pissed off the industry.

You can believe whatever you want but the fact of the matter is facts exist, You can try and spin them but its no use.

Sales are not subjective, you can talk all you want but the fact is that XB1 has only won one NPD since its release, NPD being a US based tracker, the XB1's strongest market.

You keep talking about XB1's support like I'm saying its going to vanish, I never said that. But with all the exclusive support they've had so far on the One, they are losing, and if this keep going then the paying for exclusive COD map packs is going to become extremely cost-prohibitive.

You are the one that claimed that ease of programming was irrelevant, but now you are saying its the reason the 360 was supported in Japan. Why wouldn't the PS4 have the advantage in this regard now?

Whether or not it does better than 360 remains to be seen even if it is tracking ahead of it, because many beleive the market is shrinking anyway. Not to mention the XB1 and the X360 are in very different scenarios. With the XB1 being in a worse match up even if it is stronger.

Some people are grumpy.

I'm unconcerned with your personal taste as well. Lets try to bear in mind critics don't determine what games people enjoy the most.

I challenged your opinion because I feel some of your points were weak. A fun debate!

What facts would you like to focus on? You're being too general.

DId I deny US is the X1's strongest market? Also, they haven't lost all of their US fans yet so simmer down.

You keep mentioning developers favor PS4 and I agree. The only logical response I have for that is X1 support will be fine even if developers favor PS4 as long as X1 moves a lot of units.

A lot of exclusive support is bought nowadays. My guess is MS will invest in a good number of exclusives.

I'm not saying 360 was supported in Japan because of "ease of programming." I'm pointing out even Japanese developers hated working on PS3, but they did because it was popular in Japan. Anyhow, from my understanding all consoles become easier to develop on over time.

Well there are only two relevant consoles this gen, in my opinion. Less competition might help get the X1 to a userbase at par with the 360.



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No one was making Kinect games except for 1st parties anyway. I would think 3rd parties are more relieved that there is no Kinect, so MS is unlikely to put pressure on to make Kinect games, or to shoehorn in Kinect elements into standard controller based games.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

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Devs or rather publishers may have been pissed with Xbone's crap launch and failure to live up to expectations.
Those unfulfilled expectations led to deals like Titanfall exclusivity and/or not getting enough $$$ from MS to justify exclusivity on the #2 platform.
Now it is clear that Xbone is the #2 platform, there is no problem, expectations have been adjusted and business is business.



Mr Puggsly said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

When you're done baiting and actually on topic, then perhaps you can continue the discussion.

I'm unconcerned with your subjective opinion.

I simply made a claim of my own opinion about whether or not MS has pissed off the industry.

You can believe whatever you want but the fact of the matter is facts exist, You can try and spin them but its no use.

Sales are not subjective, you can talk all you want but the fact is that XB1 has only won one NPD since its release, NPD being a US based tracker, the XB1's strongest market.

You keep talking about XB1's support like I'm saying its going to vanish, I never said that. But with all the exclusive support they've had so far on the One, they are losing, and if this keep going then the paying for exclusive COD map packs is going to become extremely cost-prohibitive.

You are the one that claimed that ease of programming was irrelevant, but now you are saying its the reason the 360 was supported in Japan. Why wouldn't the PS4 have the advantage in this regard now?

Whether or not it does better than 360 remains to be seen even if it is tracking ahead of it, because many beleive the market is shrinking anyway. Not to mention the XB1 and the X360 are in very different scenarios. With the XB1 being in a worse match up even if it is stronger.

Some people are grumpy.

Well that's what happens when you become an annoyance.

I'm unconcerned with your personal taste as well. Lets try to bear in mind critics don't determine what games people enjoy the most.

That's obviously a lie, considering your quote of my opinion is what enacted this.

I challenged your opinion because I feel some of your points were weak. A fun debate!

This isn't a debate, you can't reason with opinions. Not to mention, my only "point" was that MS isn't in the dominant position in the U.S anymore so the playing field is even with regards to multiplats and XB is fighting on PS's terms.

What facts would you like to focus on? You're being too general.

The only facts I brought up were in sales, in response to your counter. Sales show that XB1 is lagging behind PS4, and sales show how the cost of exclusivity will grow along with the gap.

DId I deny US is the X1's strongest market? Also, they haven't lost all of their US fans yet so simmer down.

Your missing the point. Xbox will always have a significant US fanbase, problem is PS4 leading in the US is going to shift favorable support towards it.

e.g Cod Map packs early on xbox platforms aren't really that much of a big deal, but they did help the 360 sell more CODs then the PS3. This is cause 360 had a larger US marketshare, the target audience for COD. If the gap grows from 500k to 1 mill in the US, then financially it makes sense to start releasing map packs on PS4 early as opposed to the One because a larger base in your target audience means more potential sales. And MS can only spend so much before investors pull in the reigns.

You keep mentioning developers favor PS4 and I agree. The only logical response I have for that is X1 support will be fine even if developers favor PS4 as long as X1 moves a lot of units.

That much is certain. The only caveat is that exclusivity will tend to PS4 if there is exclusive content at all, as long as it leads in the US

A lot of exclusive support is bought nowadays. My guess is MS will invest in a good number of exclusives.

And the price is going up. Pretty soon it simply won't be worth it any longer. Last gen being the market leader in the US, allowed MS to get away with lots of things. Flat out buying studios is a better strategy, outright buying Respawn or the TitanFall IP, would've been a better idea then buying exclusivity for the first one. Cause now, the price is going to get higher.

I'm not saying 360 was supported in Japan because of "ease of programming." I'm pointing out even Japanese developers hated working on PS3, but they did because it was popular in Japan. Anyhow, from my understanding all consoles become easier to develop on over time.

But it is undoubtedly an advantage, the PS3's extra power barely if ever mattered in multiplats and most of its high end multiplats released near the end of the gen. Undoubtedly, the XB1 will become easier to understand, that much is inevitable, but so will the PS4. Even assuming they are both understood at the same rate, the PS4 has the advantage of being easier to develop for and more powerful. 

Well there are only two relevant consoles this gen, in my opinion. Less competition might help get the X1 to a userbase at par with the 360.

That much is true, at the same time, the Wii didn't really add to the core gamer market much in the way of marketshare. LTD exceeding the 360 would be an achievement considering the odds are definetly stacked against it. If MS's casual focus pays off it might become the next Wii, but no way is it doing that at its price point imo.

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Nem said:

I dont think so.

SEGA dropped a system they could perfectly kept supporting for more years (The saturn). They disappointed publishers and customers.

Microsoft just pissed off the early adopters a bit. Maybe they annoyed a few publishers a bit, but i'm sure they understand that it benefits them more in the long run.


Wasn't the Saturn doing worse in the West and Wii U and Vita and people are calling it over for those systems already? I know by 1998 you could barely get hold of Saturn software anywhere in the UK and I got mine pre owned for £30 with 5 games before the Dreamcst even launched. Why on earth would a company as cash strapped as Sega continue to flog such a dead horse? Cutting their losses and looking to the "next gen" really was their only shot.



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DirtyP2002 said:
everybody and their mothers knew about a kinectless bundle coming out at some point. I doubt the devs were surprised.


I could find hundreds of posts from Xbox fans (from all over the web) that swear to the opposite. Even PS4 fans who said the opposite. Then there are the tweets from MS saying it won't happen and articles from various gaming sites explaining why it won't happen.

That's complete BS and you know it.



I don't think it has pissed / disappointed of the whole industry, but I think there will be lots of smaller groups that might feel that way.

1) we know many indies are pissed right from the beginning of the gen and some have been very vocal like Jonathan Blow

2) it is fair to assume some were pissed at the drm thing not going through because the concept must have been sold to developers and expectations raised for it.

3) we know the are indie developers who are disappointed due to the parity clause and they to have been vocal

Ultimately, I think it is not about pissed or disappointed developers, it is about the industry looking at MS this gen and thinking if MS knows what they are doing.

They have pretty much turned their backs on almost everything that made the system unique with the exception of TV integration. The 2 major things that MS claimed were a must and or couldn't be changed has been changed: DRM and Kinect.

Like people pointed out, developers won't complain as long as they make money from your system. That won't mean they won't look at you and laugh.

I think MS has lost their edge, their respect to an extent and their confidence. For now, developers will surely be watching how things progress and monitor sales.



No



Nope! Sega fucked up many times with the Sega CD, the 32X, the Saturn and the almighty Dreamcast, while MS simply angered early adopters of the Xbox One!



                
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Mr Puggsly said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
DRM doesnt bother devs and publishers. It only pissed off the people. The Kinect issue is the only thing that could possibly piss off devs.


It pisses off the few developers making Kinect games, but the Kinectless bundle was expected. It should also be noted Kinect will still be around.

 

I agree, it will piss off devs whom are specifically working on Kinect games and were expecting a certain amount of people to care since they were forced to have Kinects.


Did I not predict long ago that Microsoft was lying and that they would drop the Kinect and sell it seperately if Sony beat them handily within a specific number of months? They lied not once, but twice. Perhaps someone should fire Yusuf Medhi from Microsoft or at least demote him, because he lied twice on their behalf. Their new head is better.

Kinect should be around, just not forced upon people.