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Forums - Nintendo - Digital Foundry vs SM3DWorld. Those framerate drops...

kupomogli said:
Zero999 said:
kupomogli said:
Zero999 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
I think that game could be 60fps PS360 as well.

Perhaps they should have shown a scene with more happening.

nope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEAKPh_h3Eg

let's see if I follow your excuse for logic. you are saying that since an unoptimized ps360 port doesn't run perfectly on wii u, then ps360 are more powerfull than wii u? i guess you must also think ps4/xone are weaker than ps360. thank goodness mario and other wii u exclusives are a lot superior over ps360 games, thus proving my point, wich you quoted.

"then PS360 are more powerful than the Wii U."

You said that.  I think the Wii U is more powerful.  Better GPU and more ram.  Not that it matters as much, but weaker CPU than the 360 which is weaker than the PS3 CPU.  Even though it's more powerful, it's barely more powerful.


Actually, Wii U's CPU is only less powerful than PS3/360 ones if we're talking about how many FLOPS it can perform, since it's a PPC 750 variant. It's miles better in any other task, since it's a OoE CPU with a very short pipeline, so IPC goes through the roof negating any advantage PS3/360 might have due to their processors' high clockspeed. This actually explains most problems ports have on Wii U. PS3/360 engines use the consoles' CPUs heavily to perform floating point operations, since their GPU's can't keep up. Normally floating point operations would be left for the GPU to compute, since it's much better in that regard than a traditional CPU, but since X360/PS3 design focus heavily on the CPU aspect, you cannot expect those engines to run well on current hardware which leads those kinds of calculations for the GPU. It actually explains why games like ACIV and CoD Ghosts(which barely have graphical upgrades outside of resolution) can't run at constant 60FPS on the much more powerful PS4/XOne, simply because their CPUs are also much less capable on floating point operations than the Cell, for example.



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No drops? Really?

I have personally seen small drops when you have 4 players playing on the 2nd stage of the ice world. It was only like 3-5 seconds and a very slight drop, but it was noticeable.



kupomogli said:

"then PS360 are more powerful than the Wii U?"

You said that.  I think the Wii U is more powerful.  Better GPU and more ram.  Not that it matters as much, but weaker CPU than the 360 which is weaker than the PS3 CPU.  Even though it's more powerful, it's barely more powerful.   

I'm only pointing out your inherent bias.  You know the reason I think you don't think the PS360 could handle Super Mario 3D World 60fps.  Hell.  Everyone knows that reason.  Mr. 22 million Wii U's sold by December 2014.

Super Mario 3D World while colorful as it may be, lacks any sort of detail to even require any sort of processing power to reach that 60fps.  So I'm pointing out that a game that looks far and away better than Super Mario 3D World runs at an almost consistent 60fps on the 360 in single player and stable 60fps for PS360 multiplayer.  Black Ops 2 as well with multiplayer.  Stable 60fps.  It was a poor choice because it was the newest iteration of the game, and the best running games in the series were Modern Warfare 1 and 2  that  ran 60fps without framedrops on the 360. 

Here are some other games that run at a consistent 60fps and have a lot more detail in their ennvironments and a lot more going on.  Games that actually use processing power and make you go wow, this is running in 60fps, rather  than a game that it's obvious is going to be running 60fps.  I should have used one of these instead.  Forza 4, Devil May Cry 4, Wipeout HD, God of War 1 and 2 HD, Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection, Tekken 6, Tekken Tag 2, Virtua Fighter 5, Metal Gear Rising, and others.  I'll also mention Rage.  Running at 1080p and 60fps, it's one of the best looking open world titles on the PS360, looking better than most non open world games.  I don't like the game, but graphically it's pretty amazing

bolded 1: personal attacks will do you no good.

bolded2: sm 3d world looks way better than the game you showed, not the other way around.

regardless of what you say, if ps360 were to run super mario 3d world, it wouldn't be native 720p and it wouldn't be 60 fps.



kupomogli said:

Super Mario 3D World while colorful as it may be, lacks any sort of detail to even require any sort of processing power to reach that 60fps.  So I'm pointing out that a game that looks far and away better than Super Mario 3D World runs at an almost consistent 60fps on the 360 in single player and stable 60fps for PS360 multiplayer.  Black Ops 2 as well with multiplayer.  Stable 60fps.  It was a poor choice because it was the newest iteration of the game, and the best running games in the series were Modern Warfare 1 and 2  that  ran 60fps without framedrops on the 360. 

Here are some other games that run at a consistent 60fps and have a lot more detail in their ennvironments and a lot more going on.  Games that actually use processing power and make you go wow, this is running in 60fps, rather  than a game that it's obvious is going to be running 60fps.  I should have used one of these instead.  Forza 4, Devil May Cry 4, Wipeout HD, God of War 1 and 2 HD, Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection, Tekken 6, Tekken Tag 2, Virtua Fighter 5, Metal Gear Rising, and others.  I'll also mention Rage.  Running at 1080p and 60fps, it's one of the best looking open world titles on the PS360, looking better than most non open world games.  I don't like the game, but graphically it's pretty amazing

Razordragon already eloquently explained the multiplat performance problem, but a few things:

- Rage does not run at 1080p on PS3/360. It runs at a dynamic resolution ranging from a maximum of 720x1280 to a minimum of 720x640.

- Did you actually just use a HD PS2 port as an example of a game that "actually use processing power and make you go wow, this is running in 60fps"?

- Don't underestimate 3D World's looks. Even Digital Foundry said: "There's actually very little to be critical about from a technical standpoint here."



People who say 3d worlds graphics are poor or whatever. You need to actually play it. Its the most beautiful game ive ever seen. The best graphics of 2013 thus far.



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RazorDragon said:

Actually, Wii U's CPU is only less powerful than PS3/360 ones if we're talking about how many FLOPS it can perform, since it's a PPC 750 variant. It's miles better in any other task, since it's a OoE CPU with a very short pipeline, so IPC goes through the roof negating any advantage PS3/360 might have due to their processors' high clockspeed. This actually explains most problems ports have on Wii U. PS3/360 engines use the consoles' CPUs heavily to perform floating point operations, since their GPU's can't keep up. Normally floating point operations would be left for the GPU to compute, since it's much better in that regard than a traditional CPU, but since X360/PS3 design focus heavily on the CPU aspect, you cannot expect those engines to run well on current hardware which leads those kinds of calculations for the GPU. It actually explains why games like ACIV and CoD Ghosts(which barely have graphical upgrades outside of resolution) can't run at constant 60FPS on the much more powerful PS4/XOne, simply because their CPUs are also much less capable on floating point operations than the Cell, for example.

Too bad people will miss this information intentionally....



curl-6 said:

Razordragon already eloquently explained the multiplat performance problem, but a few things:

- Rage does not run at 1080p on PS3/360. It runs at a dynamic resolution ranging from a maximum of 720x1280 to a minimum of 720x640.

- Did you actually just use a HD PS2 port as an example of a game that "actually use processing power and make you go wow, this is running in 60fps"?

- Don't underestimate 3D World's looks. Even Digital Foundry said: "There's actually very little to be critical about from a technical standpoint here."

My mistake about Rage then.  Still runs at 720p/60fps.  Digital Foundry states that the 360 is rarely noticeable to have a drop in resolution.  Open world, looking as good as it does running 60fps is still impressive.

With God of War 1 and 2 HD Collection, why not.  Just as they're PS2 games upscaled to run on PS3 with high resolution textures, Super Mario 3D World could run on the Wii aside from certain effects and higher resolution textures.  Actually, the reason I added them was I wanted to put God of War 3 which only targetted 60fps but rarely hit 60fps, so I put the HD Collection because Wii comment above.

I'll just use one game from the list though instead of the ones that people want to pick apart.  Devil May Cry 4.  720p multiconsole title that runs 60fps with no frame drops.   Super Mario 3D World is 720p upscaled to 1080p, so basically 720p.



kupomogli said:
curl-6 said:

Razordragon already eloquently explained the multiplat performance problem, but a few things:

- Rage does not run at 1080p on PS3/360. It runs at a dynamic resolution ranging from a maximum of 720x1280 to a minimum of 720x640.

- Did you actually just use a HD PS2 port as an example of a game that "actually use processing power and make you go wow, this is running in 60fps"?

- Don't underestimate 3D World's looks. Even Digital Foundry said: "There's actually very little to be critical about from a technical standpoint here."

My mistake about Rage then.  Still runs at 720p/60fps.  Digital Foundry states that the 360 is rarely noticeable to have a drop in resolution.  Open world, looking as good as it does running 60fps is still impressive.

With God of War 1 and 2 HD Collection, why not.  Just as they're PS2 games upscaled to run on PS3 with high resolution textures, Super Mario 3D World could run on the Wii aside from certain effects and higher resolution textures.  Actually, the reason I added them was I wanted to put God of War 3 which only targetted 60fps but rarely hit 60fps, so I put the HD Collection because Wii comment above.

I'll just use one game from the list though instead of the ones that people want to pick apart.  Devil May Cry 4.  720p multiconsole title that runs 60fps with no frame drops.   Super Mario 3D World is 720p upscaled to 1080p, so basically 720p.

Wii couldn't even run resolutions above 480p, much less anywhere near the texture resolutions, shadows, shaders, depth of field quality, etc that 3D World has. It's no more a game that could run on the Wii than Gears of War is a game that could run on the original Xbox.



curl-6 said:

Wii couldn't even run resolutions above 480p, much less anywhere near the texture resolutions, shadows, shaders, depth of field quality, etc that 3D World has. It's no more a game that could run on the Wii than Gears of War is a game that could run on the original Xbox.

And I made mention of that.  It can't do the high resolution or some effects, but remove all that and run the game at 480p and the Wii could run the game at 30fps atleast.  A Wii version of the game would hardly look different.  Aside from high resolution textures, the difference would be similar to a PS3 to PS4 port.



kupomogli said:
curl-6 said:

Wii couldn't even run resolutions above 480p, much less anywhere near the texture resolutions, shadows, shaders, depth of field quality, etc that 3D World has. It's no more a game that could run on the Wii than Gears of War is a game that could run on the original Xbox.

And I made mention of that.  It can't do the high resolution or some effects, but remove all that and run the game at 480p and the Wii could run the game at 30fps atleast.  A Wii version of the game would hardly look different.  Aside from high resolution textures, the difference would be similar to a PS3 to PS4 port.

By that logic any PS3 game could run on PS2 if you downgraded it enough.