By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony - Why didn't Big 3rd Parties give Vita the B.O.T.D.?

MohammadBadir said:
Great argument for Why the WiiU deserves 3rd party support?


Wii U does deserve suport of some kind. I think what stands in it's way the most is how underpowered it is in comparison to the other two(like last gen). Will prove difficult to do all that is being done for next gen multiplats on that system as well. I do agree that if they can do a cross plat across generations, they could also stand to build a game for WiiU. Even if Multiplatform titles are impractical it could still recieve ofshoot versions that utilize similar assets/engine like I describe for Vita.

This is not about the WiiU tho. Vita's development culture is far simpler than bringing stuff to WiiU.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

Around the Network
forevercloud3000 said:
eFKac said:
Western devs simply have better alternatives, so without special incentive, they develop for the alternative like PS4/Xbone or smartphones when they have a way bigger chance to make more profit out of.
That's the main reason imo why Vita, Wii U and 3DS have shitty support from Western 3rd parties. 3DS has the install base but it seems to consist of typical Nintendo fans who don't buy pretty much anything other than Nintendo evergreens and some exclusives. I mean FIFA on Vita outsold its 3DS counterpart consistently, same with the recent Batman game iirc, it definitely was close, when the size of the userbase is not.

As for Japan, big developers from there have been making some questionable decisions for quite some time anyway. Majority is on the smartphone bandwagon and you can't deny the userbase difference there, which shows itself on the big hitters, Mon Hun 4 wouldn't have sold as well on the Vita as the 3DS (a port wouldn't hurt though). So I understand that they are not doing exclusive content for the platform without incentive.
Some of their porting decisions though? Fucking delusional. People are crying for some games that could only be localised and put digitally on the Store and would more than recuperate the cost.

Monster Hunter set the tone for the Vita as it stands right now. If the biggest IP that made its name on PSP isn't even on it, rather the 3DS which is cheaper, why get Vita? It was just as damaging as PS3 losing FFXIII,DMC,GTAIV exclusivity. If MH had came to Vita exclusively like it was naturally expected to it would have done very similar numbers, if not better. Remember, userbase does not equal fanbase. Last time I checked MH on 3DS was at around 2-3million sold while MH on PSP peaked at 5-6m.

MH on 3DS did pretty well, but its still not in the league of what it sold originally on PSP. The only reason that union happened is largely assumed to be NIN paid exclusivity. They even had to come out with a peripheral that pretty much is only used for MH so players have a second analog stick........something Vita has by default. The barrier for entry would have been less of an issue with Vita if not for that Moneyhat.


I disagree. I mean we didn't get a 1 million selling week for the 3DS when MonHun released. I don't see such a week for the Vita if MonHun released exclusively on it. I don't think it would have sales of the first couple of months even comparable to those we have now. It may crawl to those levels in time, but it would be a way worse deal for Capcom, not to mention the moneyhat $$$.

Of course you have a undeniable point that if MonHun 4 would be exclusive to the Vita the baselines for both handhelds would most probably be different, more favorable for the Vita, less for the 3DS. But has been trying hard to get the hunter genre fanbase on the Vita anyway, and I think a lot of them have the system, and as I said MonHun 4 going by hardware sales sold mostly to the existing 3DS userbase, whether it's the monster hunter, or hunting genre userbase in general (don't know whether there are any other hunting games on the 3DS) they have not jumped on the 3DS the day MonHun 4 released, they were there earlier. So to conclude, I think it was easily the better deal for Capcom to release the game on the 3DS, Vita wouldn't sell the game as well in the opening weeks at least and no additional money from Nintendo.



So it is happening...PS4 preorder.

Greatness Awaits!

pokoko said:
Third party publishers in the west only really care about home consoles and smart-phones. There is no room or resources left over for the Vita. The larger Japanese publishers--well, really, who knows what the hell they're thinking, they make questionable business moves as a matter of course. As a group, they tend to be very short-sighted.

The big beneficiaries of this so far have been those smaller Japanese developers who have taken the chance. They've done quite well, for the most part.

And the indies. From what I understand they have been very successful on the vita. On occassion even more so than on the ps3.



<a href="https://psnprofiles.com/fauzman"><img src="https://card.psnprofiles.com/2/fauzman.png" border="0"></a>

forevercloud3000 said:

I think what stands in it's way the most is how underpowered it is in comparison to the other


And replace that statement with overpowered and you described the Vita.

Now I realize that this might sound silly, but if a system is strong, people expect more from it's games (case in point: Vita games constantly being compared to home console ones [especially because there are so many cross-ports]). This makes it more costly to develop for the system as opposed to the 3DS, and thus the 3DS is a safer bet (especially considering that it had a headstart and already picked up steam before the Vita launched, especially in the west).

This is (in a bit of unrelated stuff) also the reason why a series like Fire Emblem has become a handheld series; sure there were games for the GC/Wii and there will be the SMT crossover for Wii U, but since the series isn't the most graphically advanced, it struggled more on home consoles than it does on Nintendo's moderatly powered handhelds, for which the series due to it's rather low-budget nature is much more profitable.

So yeah, I think Vita's problem is that it's overpowered. Would people have picked it up this would be a non-issue, but since that did not happen, companies rather go for the 3DS crowd, also due to the fact that developing is not as expensive due to reduced expectations when it comes to graphics and presentation.



Nintendo Network ID: domflo

Add me if you like!

Ask me about 3DS Friend Code if interested. All other things are in the profile!

domflo said:
forevercloud3000 said:
 

I think what stands in it's way the most is how underpowered it is in comparison to the other


And replace that statement with overpowered and you described the Vita.

Now I realize that this might sound silly, but if a system is strong, people expect more from it's games (case in point: Vita games constantly being compared to home console ones [especially because there are so many cross-ports]). This makes it more costly to develop for the system as opposed to the 3DS, and thus the 3DS is a safer bet (especially considering that it had a headstart and already picked up steam before the Vita launched, especially in the west).

This is (in a bit of unrelated stuff) also the reason why a series like Fire Emblem has become a handheld series; sure there were games for the GC/Wii and there will be the SMT crossover for Wii U, but since the series isn't the most graphically advanced, it struggled more on home consoles than it does on Nintendo's moderatly powered handhelds, for which the series due to it's rather low-budget nature is much more profitable.

So yeah, I think Vita's problem is that it's overpowered. Would people have picked it up this would be a non-issue, but since that did not happen, companies rather go for the 3DS crowd, also due to the fact that developing is not as expensive due to reduced expectations when it comes to graphics and presentation.


you bring up a very good point that I did mean to touch upon in the OP . Why is the Vita punished for being more powerful? I see it happening but makes no sense. In a perfect world, Vita could have any game that is currently on 3DS, be able to output the same to better graphics, and for the most part...be easier to make in the first place. This ridiculous mind set that you have to make games for the Vita that push the system to it's limit all the time is hurtful. Maybe that is Sony's fault, they might have wanted that, but what they ended up getting is what they get now from 3rd Parties.

The only people I really see complaining about graphics on Vita are Media and Reviewers. They just don't get it. Instead of being thankful the system can output in comparable fidelity as the consoles the system gets lambasted for things like empty environment, poor textures. No duh Sherlock, its NOT A CONSOLE. it cannot fill the environment with the same level of special effects and scenery as does the PS3/4. 3DS gets similar expectations at times but not to the same extent. This thought process is why the average handheld titles get rated SOOOOO much lower than console equivilants most times.

In essense its not Vita Hardware that brings up cost, rather stupid people's expectations for it to look like Uncharted on PS3. I am totally content with games using stylized artistic directions like P4G, Bravely Default, New Little King's Story, Gravity Rush. Not everyone can do Uncharted GA, Killzone Mercs level of realism and should not be expected. Its a handheld, graphics are NOT a priority and they never have been in this space.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

Around the Network

probably because of the PSP.. Sony didn't get it right regarding software so its no surprise 3rd party developers are skeptical with the Vita.. Shelfspace became non existant for the later years of the psp..

and also Sony isn't giving the right example to 3rd parties with their own Vita titles..



 

Face the future.. Gamecenter ID: nikkom_nl (oh no he didn't!!) 

eFKac said:

I disagree. I mean we didn't get a 1 million selling week for the 3DS when MonHun released. I don't see such a week for the Vita if MonHun released exclusively on it. I don't think it would have sales of the first couple of months even comparable to those we have now. It may crawl to those levels in time, but it would be a way worse deal for Capcom, not to mention the moneyhat $$$.

Of course you have a undeniable point that if MonHun 4 would be exclusive to the Vita the baselines for both handhelds would most probably be different, more favorable for the Vita, less for the 3DS. But has been trying hard to get the hunter genre fanbase on the Vita anyway, and I think a lot of them have the system, and as I said MonHun 4 going by hardware sales sold mostly to the existing 3DS userbase, whether it's the monster hunter, or hunting genre userbase in general (don't know whether there are any other hunting games on the 3DS) they have not jumped on the 3DS the day MonHun 4 released, they were there earlier. So to conclude, I think it was easily the better deal for Capcom to release the game on the 3DS, Vita wouldn't sell the game as well in the opening weeks at least and no additional money from Nintendo.

Chicken or the Egg dilemma....

Third Parties are hesitant to put efforts on Vita because its not selling faster.

or

Vita isn't selling as much because 3rd Parties haven't released their big games for it(MonHun).

I think its the latter. This is why I think MH4 could have potentially done just as well(minus moneyhatt) on Vita. There are 3 big obstacles in Vita's way.

1. Lack of Big 3rd Party Support

2. Price Barrier to get Vita.

3. Lack of good Advertising.

2 and 3 are in Sony's court and over the last year and a half they have been working at that.  They can only do so much without 1 tho. In the future Sony definitely should want to built their own arsenal of games to put on future Vita iterations. Their console series are a duh, but also things like Gravity Rush. Sony will need to make games that you always know will be there. Like Pokemon is for 3DS. This would save them from being completely 3rd party dependent as they are now for the handheld.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

fauzman said:
pokoko said:
Third party publishers in the west only really care about home consoles and smart-phones. There is no room or resources left over for the Vita. The larger Japanese publishers--well, really, who knows what the hell they're thinking, they make questionable business moves as a matter of course. As a group, they tend to be very short-sighted.

The big beneficiaries of this so far have been those smaller Japanese developers who have taken the chance. They've done quite well, for the most part.

And the indies. From what I understand they have been very successful on the vita. On occassion even more so than on the ps3.


Retro City Rampage sold better on Vita than PS3. P4G has done equal numbers with how they did on PS2 originally. Vita'sf attach rate for games is through the roof.

If Big 3rd Party would just make a game thats worth buying, it will sell for sure.

If EA/Bioware were to theoretically make a Mass Effect title on Vita, but let it mostly play like Walking Dead(visual novel, cheap to make) it would sell gold mines.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

forevercloud3000 said:
Munkeh111 said:
I have to agree, they really just don't care about the Vita and they have never tried

Just look at EA, I normally defend them, but they treat the Vita awfully. You can port PS3 games to Vita fairly easily, but they just don't bother with FIFA, their main game series. This years' game (put in the highest bracket of Vita prices) is still FIFA 11. I'm not demanding a unique version, just a port from the PS3!

Then look at remote play on Vita. On AC IV, Ubisoft realised that you would be holding R2 for most of the time, so swapped R1 and R2 to stick R2 on the Vita shoulder buttons. In FIFA, you have to hold R2 to run, which means that on Vita you would have to hold the back touch pad by default and of course they couldn't be bothered to change that, which makes the game unplayable

If these companies can't even be bothered to swap some buttons to get remote play working properly, then are they really going to be bothered to make a game?

I have Persona 4 to play (then probably again on New Game +), LBP Vita, Tearawy, mabye Batman Arkham City and then what? Back to PS1 classics and indie PSN games that I don't really like.

Greatness does not seem to be awaiting the Vita

The Vita actually has quite a lot to play. I am super pleased with its library because I am capable/willing to look and find out about the games that ARE out for the system. I just bought Ys:MoC which I am addicted to. Also got KZ:Mercs, and Rainbow Moon.

Unfortunately, most seem to ingore what is currently available because they want to see Big 3rd Party support for series they know and love. That means Final Fantasy, GTA, GT, AC, COD, Uncharted, Battlefield, Monster Hunter by the publishers they know make them.  Unltil Vita has those games it seems the system will forever be mared with the "Has no Games" tag line because these are series that buyers know, so there is less risk in buying into them......as opposed to a bunch of new IPs like Soul Sacrifice, Tearaway, Gravity Rush, etc. New IPs take years and several iterations to build a "fanbase" usually.

Vita is basically an unknown system with a bunch of unknown games. Its a giant question mark to buyers asking "Why should I get Vita?" Developers/Sony have to give them something they can relate to.

I agree, I know that Ys and Rainbow Moon exist, yet I have absolutely no idea what they are

As for the other new IPs here, they are certainly weird.... I played the demo of Soul Sacrifice and didn't like it, but Gravity Rush and Tearaway are just odd games. They need some which have some mass market appeal, beyond 1 bad Call of Duty



They didn't want to take the risk, Zero 3rd Party game was developed for the Vita this holiday "We have Batman Black Gate which is multiplat with 3DS" but anyways we need more of system sellers in the West, I think it's doing fabulously year-over-year in Japan, and 2014 is going to be even better !