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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Getting slightly tired of battle transitions/forced battles in JRPGs.

Otakumegane said:
osed125 said:

That's just how old styles JRPGs work, I personally don't mind them all that much, but I do understand why some people find them annoying.

In SMT IV I find extremely easy to avoid enemies in open areas, although it is practically impossible to avoid them in the world map, don't really mind this because I think those battles are easier than the ones in the open world, so they go extremely quickly (to the point where in some of them I auto attack).

I do admit that I generally don't like playing more than 1 JRPG at time, and after I beat one I quickly move to another genre, but I do this with every game. I rarely play a sequel right after I finish the first game because (if the gameplay is the same) I get bored very quickly. I like to take a rest between similar games.


This is most likely why the game hasn't exactly clicked for me yet. I haven't had the chance to really define Tokyo and it's gnawing at me. I just really want to see the city and the areas. Just get some chances to really look at it.

I can't play old-style JRPGs for more than 2 hours at a time because of the pattern of transition becoming tedium. But I could play Xenoblade and TWEWY (which also didn't have forced battles and allowed you to choose exactly what kind of battle you wanted to have) for more than 4 at a time.

Sometimes I just wanna chill in the game and soak in the atmosphere. JRPGs aren't very good at this whole "abnegation" thing a lot of times.

I do see a big design problem with the world map. There is indeed a lot of places you can enter, but so far 95% of those are just places where there's a demon that says me to f*ck off or says nothing relevant. I guess all of them involved a side quest or maybe the main quest but later in the game, and that's kinda annoying, not because I have to enter battles to get to them, but because they don't offer anything (at least not yet). They should only be available when I accept a quest or something. 



Nintendo and PC gamer

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Otakumegane said:
osed125 said

Don't you think that part of why there isn't much to explore is because of the battle system? Such encounters force one to take a long time even getting through a medium sized area. Developers could create a lot more explorable worlds free from a constrainting mechanic.

Maybe part of why traditional JRPGs have flocked to handhelds is because the whole "change of pace" and the "static" nature of turn-based that just fits a lot better on the go when you can just close it, wait some minutes, open it and you don't miss out on a thing.

Yes, that's part of the reason. But then again I don't expect huge exploration in most traditional JRPGs. When I want to explore I play games like Fallout, Skyrim or Zelda. Most JRPGs where there are random or forced battles don't really offer a true sense of exploration.

That's actually a very good point, we see less and less traditional JRPGs coming to consoles, most of them are on handhelds (and in the case of SE to smartphones and tablets).



Nintendo and PC gamer

Otakumegane said:
osed125 said:
Otakumegane said:

That's probably because Xenoblade is build to have exploration, and thus the developers obviously realize that random encounters or forced battles wouldn't work. 

In SMT IV for example the amount of exploration in the world map is very little (some few chests and relics here and there, but nothing major), and in the open areas where there are more chests and relics the battles are very easy to avoid (for the most part), and still there isn't THAT much exploration in this areas.

Don't you think that part of why there isn't much to explore is because of the battle system? Such encounters force one to take a long time even getting through a medium sized area. Developers could create a lot more explorable worlds free from a constrainting mechanic.

Maybe part of why traditional JRPGs have flocked to handhelds is because the whole "change of pace" and the "static" nature of turn-based that just fits a lot better on the go when you can just close it, wait some minutes, open it and you don't miss out on a thing.


I think the problem here is that you want to focus on exploration on a game that isn't about that.  The developers are fully aware of the situation, the game wasn't made to just be where you are supposed to freely explore.  There are a good bit of things to explore, but it isn't the focus of a game.  Like someone else pointed out, it seems like you want an adventure game rather than an RPG.  



MDMAlliance said:
Otakumegane said:
osed125 said:
Otakumegane said:

That's probably because Xenoblade is build to have exploration, and thus the developers obviously realize that random encounters or forced battles wouldn't work. 

In SMT IV for example the amount of exploration in the world map is very little (some few chests and relics here and there, but nothing major), and in the open areas where there are more chests and relics the battles are very easy to avoid (for the most part), and still there isn't THAT much exploration in this areas.

Don't you think that part of why there isn't much to explore is because of the battle system? Such encounters force one to take a long time even getting through a medium sized area. Developers could create a lot more explorable worlds free from a constrainting mechanic.

Maybe part of why traditional JRPGs have flocked to handhelds is because the whole "change of pace" and the "static" nature of turn-based that just fits a lot better on the go when you can just close it, wait some minutes, open it and you don't miss out on a thing.


I think the problem here is that you want to focus on exploration on a game that isn't about that.  The developers are fully aware of the situation, the game wasn't made to just be where you are supposed to freely explore.  There are a good bit of things to explore, but it isn't the focus of a game.  Like someone else pointed out, it seems like you want an adventure game rather than an RPG.  

Just because I want some adventuring elements in my JRPG doesn't mean I want adventure game. 

I like my JRPG tactical combat systems and story telling, just I want to have the choice to define a world that I like by really looking at it. I think the way JRPGs approach battles is "you choose when to run". In a lot of WRPGs nowadays it's "you choose when to fight".

If the developers really didn't want me to explore the game, then why make fully explorable maps and 3D eviornments? If that truly was the case, then they should have made in strictly linear in progreassion like in Fire Emblem and not make us have to explore and find certain points on the map to continue.



http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/profile/92109/nintendopie/ Nintendopie  Was obviously right and I was obviously wrong. I will forever be a lesser being than them. (6/16/13)

Otakumegane said:
MDMAlliance said:


I think the problem here is that you want to focus on exploration on a game that isn't about that.  The developers are fully aware of the situation, the game wasn't made to just be where you are supposed to freely explore.  There are a good bit of things to explore, but it isn't the focus of a game.  Like someone else pointed out, it seems like you want an adventure game rather than an RPG.  

Just because I want some adventuring elements in my JRPG doesn't mean I want adventure game. 

I like my JRPG tactical combat systems and story telling, just I want to have the choice to define a world that I like by really looking at it. I think the way JRPGs approach battles is "you choose when to run". In a lot of WRPGs nowadays it's "you choose when to fight".

If the developers really didn't want me to explore the game, then why make fully explorable maps and 3D eviornments? If that truly was the case, then they should have made in strictly linear in progreassion like in Fire Emblem and not make us have to explore and find certain points on the map to continue.


To me, it seems like you're thinking really black and white with this.  Exploration is A focus in the game, but it is NOT the MAIN focus.  Which is WHY SMTIV is in an inbetween with JRPG's.  A lot of JRPG's you just get into random encounters that you cannot even escape entering.  SMTIV lets you see the demons on the environments and effectively you can avoid them, even in the world map (believe it or not, there's a way).  However, you of course HAVE to get into battles eventually as you cannot progress that way.  The battle mechanics are the MAIN focus of the game, so they obviously make it where it would be best NOT to always avoid your fights.  Also, you may not have noticed it but almost every single demon on the map moves slower than you do.  SMTIV is really a good example of the place in between with JRPG's, while Final Fantasy is on one end of the spectrum and Super Paper Mario is on the other end (the main focus of that game would be a combination of narrative and exploring the environments).  

However, if you're really just looking for exploring environments, adventure games are really what suits that the best.



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I love battles, imo we need way more games with them! I wont complain once since they are becoming rare now.



MDMAlliance said:
Otakumegane said:
MDMAlliance said:


I think the problem here is that you want to focus on exploration on a game that isn't about that.  The developers are fully aware of the situation, the game wasn't made to just be where you are supposed to freely explore.  There are a good bit of things to explore, but it isn't the focus of a game.  Like someone else pointed out, it seems like you want an adventure game rather than an RPG.  

Just because I want some adventuring elements in my JRPG doesn't mean I want adventure game. 

I like my JRPG tactical combat systems and story telling, just I want to have the choice to define a world that I like by really looking at it. I think the way JRPGs approach battles is "you choose when to run". In a lot of WRPGs nowadays it's "you choose when to fight".

If the developers really didn't want me to explore the game, then why make fully explorable maps and 3D eviornments? If that truly was the case, then they should have made in strictly linear in progreassion like in Fire Emblem and not make us have to explore and find certain points on the map to continue.


To me, it seems like you're thinking really black and white with this.  Exploration is A focus in the game, but it is NOT the MAIN focus.  Which is WHY SMTIV is in an inbetween with JRPG's.  A lot of JRPG's you just get into random encounters that you cannot even escape entering.  SMTIV lets you see the demons on the environments and effectively you can avoid them, even in the world map (believe it or not, there's a way).  However, you of course HAVE to get into battles eventually as you cannot progress that way.  The battle mechanics are the MAIN focus of the game, so they obviously make it where it would be best NOT to always avoid your fights.  Also, you may not have noticed it but almost every single demon on the map moves slower than you do.  SMTIV is really a good example of the place in between with JRPG's, while Final Fantasy is on one end of the spectrum and Super Paper Mario is on the other end (the main focus of that game would be a combination of narrative and exploring the environments).  

However, if you're really just looking for exploring environments, adventure games are really what suits that the best.

Not all the time I want to explore a world, just when I get that itch after playing for a long time.

Xenoblade and TWEWY let you switch between progression and exploration near seamlessly, and it's not like that hampered the battle system or anything like that.

It really is an issue of "why can't we have both?" Super Paper Mario is a bad example of when too much world hopping and 3D moving hampered the depth of combat. 

It's like the developer gave me tools that I could work with, (impressive setting and enviornments)  but also restricted my use of them. I think part of why WRPGs are so popular these days is the freedom they give you to work with the tools you have. A lot of JRPGs currently conflict in the sense as they provide but do not encourage their use.

It's just a bit unsettling and I feel I'm not getting as much out of the game as I could. It's not like I have this problem when playing a more linear game like a VN or FE because I work within the tools they give and I can use them well. Exploration in SMTIV is just an example of "I have this tool, but why is it so heavy and hard to use?" The city and the environments are clearly meant to be explored with hidden relics and items. I just wish that stopping me every 30 steps just for me to hit the flee button didn't need discourage me from spending time finding them.



http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/profile/92109/nintendopie/ Nintendopie  Was obviously right and I was obviously wrong. I will forever be a lesser being than them. (6/16/13)

Otakumegane said:

Not all the time I want to explore a world, just when I get that itch after playing for a long time.

Xenoblade and TWEWY let you switch between progression and exploration near seamlessly, and it's not like that hampered the battle system or anything like that.

They also both feature totally different battle mechanics.  That's why they can offer it in the way they do.  A game like SMTIV, played the way Xenoblade or TWEWY is, would essentially be a different game and would not reflect the way SMT games are supposed to be.

It really is an issue of "why can't we have both?" Super Paper Mario is a bad example of when too much world hopping and 3D moving hampered the depth of combat. 

This is mostly just an opinion thing as not everyone felt this way about Super Paper Mario, and I think regardless it's still a good example of a JRPG where its focus is exploration and it isn't necessary to fight every battle, and just get on with the game.

It's like the developer gave me tools that I could work with, (impressive setting and enviornments)  but also restricted my use of them. I think part of why WRPGs are so popular these days is the freedom they give you to work with the tools you have. A lot of JRPGs currently conflict in the sense as they provide but do not encourage their use.

It's just a bit unsettling and I feel I'm not getting as much out of the game as I could. It's not like I have this problem when playing a more linear game like a VN or FE because I work within the tools they give and I can use them well. Exploration in SMTIV is just an example of "I have this tool, but why is it so heavy and hard to use?" The city and the environments are clearly meant to be explored with hidden relics and items. I just wish that stopping me every 30 steps just for me to hit the flee button didn't need discourage me from spending time finding them.

I've gone through multiple areas in SMTIV without ever getting into combat and I have collected as much as I could from those areas.  You simply just have to find the way to do it.  The atmosphere of the game is that Tokyo is overridden with demons.  If you could just walk around like there aren't any in a danger zone, it would severely conflict with the atmosphere of the game.  Maybe what you really want is for there to be those larger open areas to be one of the safe zones or something, because I do not see this as a design flaw, but more of a design choice.
A game that does exactly what you're saying is more like Final Fantasy VII (though it's an old game, so I suppose it's excused due to hardware limitations). I do NOT get the same feel from SMTIV that I got from FFVII.  FFVII has a LOT of details in their environments, as well as many things hidden within them.  Battles do not HAVE to get in the way with SMTIV, but you do have to keep on your toes.  Like I said before, it's definitely there for atmosphere as well as other reasons previously mentioned.





I miss the ultima games. Still had transitions but you can see enemies on the screen so you can avoid them if you wish



No,I want more turnbased and more random battles
today pretty much every rpg have that boring hack n slash mechanics



If it isn't turnbased it isn't worth playing   (mostly)

And shepherds we shall be,

For Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee And teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti. -----The Boondock Saints