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Forums - Sales Discussion - Will the PS4 outsell the XBox One and WiiU?

To early to say, all you say with certainty is the wii U will not sell the most consoles
PS4 will sell decent but the xbone is harder to predict since theyre going after the casuals, its either gonna succeed or bomb we wont know until a couple of months after its launch



All bow to me the VGChartz current reigning 3DS prediction champion 

 Bet with tbone51: Pokeon X & pokemon Y will not sell more than 8 million in 2013

 jarrod said:The Xbox360 or ps3 will not sell more than 75million units

July 2009 daveJ saidTrue the wii has a large lead now but by 2017 the most likely result will be 1. ps3 2. xbox360 3. wii <-- wii's successor launched in 2011 effectively killing sales of the wii

 2009 daveJ said: The wii will not break the 50% marketshare barrier it will go below the 40% marketshare barrier though in the future. VGChartz members: Impossible, youre an idiot that knows nothing about sales

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daveJ said:
To early to say, all you say with certainty is the wii U will not sell the most consoles
PS4 will sell decent but the xbone is harder to predict since theyre going after the casuals, its either gonna succeed or bomb we wont know until a couple of months after its launch

xbone will bomb thanks to the used games thing. wii u vs ps4 will be an interesting fight, but wii u is cheaper, got the best exclusives and will have the multiplatforms so ps4 will have to prove itself.



Well, Its more like will the sun rise tomorrow, its more a matter of when ....



After the X1 reveal I maintain my prediction PS4 will win the generation (lot of rumours suggest a $399-$449 price), X1 in second place (horrible anti consumer policies but people won't care as long as they can play Halo and Gears) and Wii U third.



goopy20 said:
snowdog said:
And it should also be pointed out that you shouldn't judge a console on specs alone, a few developers have noted that the GPU 'punches above its weight'. It wouldn't surprise me if the CPU and RAM performance is the same.

And even if their performance reflects the specs it still isn't going to have any problems handling down-ports from the PS4 and One.

The gpu does punch above it's weight but only compared to current gen consoles. People did actually figure out what is in the Wii U and it has about 1,5 the raw computing power of the 360's GPU, and off course twice the memory. Not bad by today's standards but a far cry from a true next machine like the ps4.

the final GPU is indeed a close match to the 4650/4670, albeit with a deficit in the number of texture-mapping units and a lower clock speed - 550MHz. AMD's RV770 hardware is well documented so with these numbers we can now, categorically, finally rule out any next-gen pretensions for the Wii U - the GCN hardware in Durango and Orbis is in a completely different league. However, the 16 TMUs at 550MHz and texture cache improvements found in RV770 do elevate the capabilities of this hardware beyond the Xenos GPU in the Xbox 360 - 1.5 times the raw shader power sounds about right. [Update: It's generally accepted that the PS3 graphics core is less capable than Xenos, so Wii U's GPU would be even more capable.] 1080p resolution is around 2.5x that of 720p, so bearing in mind the inclusion of just eight ROPs, it's highly unlikely that we'll be seeing any complex 3D titles running at 1080p.

We are talking about a 600% difference just from the gpu and I am not even going to begin about the 8 core CPU and 7 gigs of GDDR5. All I know is that if developers can't show a big leap i n graphics between both platforms, then they are doing a piss poor job.



Latte bears no resemblance whatsoever to an RV770, we have no idea of the ROPs (although 8 is most likely), TMUs, ALUs, Compute Units. None of it. You really need to take a look at the Latte thread on Gaf. I'm beginning to subscribe to the theory that Latte has dual graphics engines. It fits with the unknown parts of the GPU pretty much.

In terms of raw power it should be between the previous gen and this gen, and won't have much of a problem running down-ports, as I've previously said.



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snowdog said:
goopy20 said:
snowdog said:
And it should also be pointed out that you shouldn't judge a console on specs alone, a few developers have noted that the GPU 'punches above its weight'. It wouldn't surprise me if the CPU and RAM performance is the same.

And even if their performance reflects the specs it still isn't going to have any problems handling down-ports from the PS4 and One.

The gpu does punch above it's weight but only compared to current gen consoles. People did actually figure out what is in the Wii U and it has about 1,5 the raw computing power of the 360's GPU, and off course twice the memory. Not bad by today's standards but a far cry from a true next machine like the ps4.

the final GPU is indeed a close match to the 4650/4670, albeit with a deficit in the number of texture-mapping units and a lower clock speed - 550MHz. AMD's RV770 hardware is well documented so with these numbers we can now, categorically, finally rule out any next-gen pretensions for the Wii U - the GCN hardware in Durango and Orbis is in a completely different league. However, the 16 TMUs at 550MHz and texture cache improvements found in RV770 do elevate the capabilities of this hardware beyond the Xenos GPU in the Xbox 360 - 1.5 times the raw shader power sounds about right. [Update: It's generally accepted that the PS3 graphics core is less capable than Xenos, so Wii U's GPU would be even more capable.] 1080p resolution is around 2.5x that of 720p, so bearing in mind the inclusion of just eight ROPs, it's highly unlikely that we'll be seeing any complex 3D titles running at 1080p.

We are talking about a 600% difference just from the gpu and I am not even going to begin about the 8 core CPU and 7 gigs of GDDR5. All I know is that if developers can't show a big leap i n graphics between both platforms, then they are doing a piss poor job.



Latte bears no resemblance whatsoever to an RV770, we have no idea of the ROPs (although 8 is most likely), TMUs, ALUs, Compute Units. None of it. You really need to take a look at the Latte thread on Gaf. I'm beginning to subscribe to the theory that Latte has dual graphics engines. It fits with the unknown parts of the GPU pretty much.

In terms of raw power it should be between the previous gen and this gen, and won't have much of a problem running down-ports, as I've previously said.

I am sorry to burst your bubble there but that's impossible. There is one know fact about the Wii-U hardware, it only uses a little over 30W even in games. That alone proves there is no way that the Wii-U can ever be close to a PS4/ Xbox One in power, let alone sport dual graphics engines.

More importantly both PS4 and Xbox One have an APU design with cpu and gpu on the same chip. This allows developers to share heavy computing tasks between cpu and gpu, something Wii-U can not do. The APU design alone already puts PS4 and Xbox One in a different generation speed wise.



Zero999 said:
goopy20 said:
Zero999 said:

“The Wii U GPU is several generations ahead of the current gen. It allows many things that were not possible on consoles before. If you develop for Wii U you have to take advantage of these possibilities, otherwise your performance is of course limited. Also your engine layout needs to be different. You need to take advantage of the large shared memory of the Wii U, the huge and very fast EDRAM section and the big CPU caches in the cores. Especially the workings of the CPU caches are very important to master. Otherwise you can lose a magnitude of power for cache relevant parts of your code. In the end the Wii U specs fit perfectly together and make a very efficient console when used right.”

Shin'en multimidia.

Ok fine guys. The Wii U is a beast that will run something like Killzone 4 just fine. In 720p because, obviously, the console was designed as a 720p machine and has nothing to do with the lack of power that prevents it from running 1080p. All the AAA developers just don't know what the hell they are talking about. But listen to Shin'en multimedia who were able to pull of next gen graphics on the Wii-u with their 9,99 DLC title Nano Assault Neo and .... oh wait they only made that one game... Seriously now, It's a good game, but how is anyone supposed to take their tech advise seriously when their game could very likely run fine on a ps2?

Can't we just agree that people will buy a Wii U for it's exclusives, not for the graphics? What kind of next gen graphics do you guys seriously expect from a Mario kart and does it matter for games like that? You seem to forget that the Wii U already has a Mario game, which is actually pretty good and is sitting on a 84 Metacritic score. Those are the sort of games Nintendo needs more off and no Nintendo fan is going to care if it uses Tesselation, Dynamic GI or any other fancy DX11 rendering effects. What Nintendo doesn't need are weak sauce versions of core games because people who care about graphics will notice the difference between 720 and 1080p or dynamic vs pre-baked lighting.

bolded 1: EA and very few others talking shit out of their asses doesn't equal "All the AAA developers"

bolded 2: Apparently some people were blessed with a magical ps2.

bolded 3: people who cares about GAMES won't' give a shit to hard to notice resolution difference that just serves to make the games more expensive and inflate fanboys egos.

double bolded 1. We aren't talking about a few game developers here dude, we are talking about engine builders whose tech will power around 80% of all next gen games. Just because Frostbite 3 can't really work on the Wii U, all EA's major franchises like: Fifa, Mass Effect, Battlefield, NFS, Star Wars etc. won't be coming to the Wii U. Also explain to me why EA would make up things like that, or Insomniac, Epic, Capcom etc.

double bolded 2: Do you honestly count a 2d top down shooter as a next gen game? 

double bolded 3: The problem is that you can't relate to other type of gamers. I can totally understand that people like the Wii U and it's franchises and that those sort of people don't give a rat's ass about graphics. However,  you don't seem to understand that there are actually a shitload of gamers who do care about graphics. Call them core gamers, graphic whores or whatever you want, but those are the kind of people that would buy a $1000 gpu just so to get that extra bit of eyecandy. And yes they will see a difference between 720p and 1080p. Not everybody can afford a $1000 gpu but there are a ton of people who would sell their kidney just to own one. Those are the sort of gamers who are ignoring the Wii U while they wait for something that is actually an upgrade from the console they already own. They don't care about Mario Karts or Pikmin, they care about games like MW with graphics they never experienced before on their Xbox/ps3. And no, pretty graphics don't make the games more expensive lol. Hell the Wii U's inferior version of Black Ops2 actually costs more on the Wii U then on the other consoles.



Actually you'll find a great deal of gamers unable to tell the difference because they don't sit close enough to their televisions. They may say they can tell the difference, whether they can or not is a completely different story in a lot of cases. Gamers so far haven't even had a great deal of experience viewing 1080p native graphics, they're used to seeing 720p native visuals or even sub-HD visuals upscaled to 1080p.

As for Black Ops 2 on the Wii U the difference in price was down to two things: 1) It released later than the other SKUs which were both reduced in price and 2) Publishers always get greedy with launch titles.

And Anthony, you're not bursting anything at all. The Wii U can draw up to 75W, even with USB devices attached that still leaves plenty of wiggle room for the GPU to have a dual graphics engine. None of the games released so far are even beginning to push the Wii U hardware. Once a game that taxes the GPU more appears we'll get more of an idea of the power draw that the GPU has. You'll end up hearing in October once 3D Mario is released.



snowdog said:

And Anthony, you're not bursting anything at all. The Wii U can draw up to 75W, even with USB devices attached that still leaves plenty of wiggle room for the GPU to have a dual graphics engine. None of the games released so far are even beginning to push the Wii U hardware. Once a game that taxes the GPU more appears we'll get more of an idea of the power draw that the GPU has. You'll end up hearing in October once 3D Mario is released.


No, Anthony is correct.
It's logic.
If the Wii U can draw 75W, then that entire power draw will not be dedicated to just the GPU. - The Optical Drive, Flash Drive, Chipsets, pieces-of-other-logic, CPU, RAM will all take a chunk out of that number.
Plus the Wii U's GPU is built at 40nm, that's going to mean that less Transisters are dedicated to graphics or higher power consumption compared to if it was built at 28nm.
With that said, 40nm is incredibly mature, so it's cheap to fab chips on.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

AnthonyW86 said:
snowdog said:

Latte bears no resemblance whatsoever to an RV770, we have no idea of the ROPs (although 8 is most likely), TMUs, ALUs, Compute Units. None of it. You really need to take a look at the Latte thread on Gaf. I'm beginning to subscribe to the theory that Latte has dual graphics engines. It fits with the unknown parts of the GPU pretty much.

In terms of raw power it should be between the previous gen and this gen, and won't have much of a problem running down-ports, as I've previously said.

I am sorry to burst your bubble there but that's impossible. There is one know fact about the Wii-U hardware, it only uses a little over 30W even in games. That alone proves there is no way that the Wii-U can ever be close to a PS4/ Xbox One in power, let alone sport dual graphics engines.

More importantly both PS4 and Xbox One have an APU design with cpu and gpu on the same chip. This allows developers to share heavy computing tasks between cpu and gpu, something Wii-U can not do. The APU design alone already puts PS4 and Xbox One in a different generation speed wise.

But the whole lot more power the PS4/Xbox One have will only result in slightly better graphics.