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Forums - Sales Discussion - Will the PS4 outsell the XBox One and WiiU?

goopy20 on 26 May 2013
snowdog said:
It'll be pointless bringing UE4 to the PS3 and 360 because the GPUs don't have a modern enough feature set, RSX and Xenos have DX9-equivalent feature sets. Latte has a DX11-equivalent feature set, same as Liverpool and the One's GPU, so it WILL take advantage of 'next gen' features such as tessellation.

Once the Wii U's sales explode due to either a price cut and/or the releases of 3D Mario and Mario Kart 8 before Christmas you'll see publishers requesting Wii U support for UE4 because they'll want to take advantage of the extra horsepower than the Wii U has over the previous gen consoles. UE3 won't cut it.

You'll also see developers porting between the Wii U/PS4/One rather than the Wii U/PS3/360 due to all 3 current gen consoles having a similar architecture. It will make no sense for developers to port from the PS4 or One using UE4 to the Wii U using UE3, and would be a nightmare to port between the PS3/360 using UE3 to the Wii U using UE3. We've already started to see developers using the PC as the lead platform and porting to the Wii U/PS4/One and having the PS3 and 360 SKUs developed independently with Watch Dogs.

People seem to be judging a console's power on launch titles, people do it every generation. Remember the flak that the 360 got at launch..? It wasn't until Gears of War was released that people began to realise that it was a step up from the PS2. The same thing is going to happen when 3D Mario is released and we see what Retro have been working on. The Wii U is a 'next gen' machine with a GPU that can handle 'next gen' games, just with less bells and whistles compared to the PS4 and One. You'll see this at E3, although I guarantee you that plenty of people will be in denial even after seeing it with their own eyes. Remember the 2011 E3 'sizzle reel'..? lol

Just because a GPU supports DX11 doesn't mean it can run things like tesselation. Processing power wise there's simply a huge difference between the Wii U and the ps4, and I am not even sure the ps4 can do full screen tesselation. The UET4 techdemo was already toned down a little compared to the pc version that was running on a GTX680. 

You're right though that launch games usually don't show the full potential of a new console, but you should at least see something that wasn't possible before. Killzone 4 is also just a launch game and there is just no way in hell that could run on a ps3. On the wii U, however, there is nothing out that can't be done on the ps3/ 360 though. I am also willing to bet that 3D MArio won't look better then something like the Last of Us.



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snowdog on 26 May 2013

It isn't pointless to keep reminding you that there's over a third of the silicon that's a complete mystery. It's a fact, and a very important one at that. We really don't have much of a clue about Latte apart from two things - it has the same amount of eDRAM as the One's GPU and it has a DX11-equivalent feature set. And that's it.

We don't have a clue how many ROPs or ALUs it has, have no idea. It's a completely custom GPU and we don't even know what GPU it's based on because it's been customised so much that its origins are completely unrecognisable.

And it should also be noted that not a single developer, named or anonymous, has complained about the GPU or RAM...quite the opposite in fact.



snowdog on 26 May 2013

And incidentally, Latte has been confirmed to handle tesselation well by Shin'En. They're using it in their next game.



Zero999 on 26 May 2013
snowdog said:
It isn't pointless to keep reminding you that there's over a third of the silicon that's a complete mystery. It's a fact, and a very important one at that. We really don't have much of a clue about Latte apart from two things - it has the same amount of eDRAM as the One's GPU and it has a DX11-equivalent feature set. And that's it.

We don't have a clue how many ROPs or ALUs it has, have no idea. It's a completely custom GPU and we don't even know what GPU it's based on because it's been customised so much that its origins are completely unrecognisable.

And it should also be noted that not a single developer, named or anonymous, has complained about the GPU or RAM...quite the opposite in fact.

before he starts the secret sauce shit, remind him that WE don't know those details like flopage but devs do.



goopy20 on 27 May 2013
Zero999 said:
snowdog said:
It isn't pointless to keep reminding you that there's over a third of the silicon that's a complete mystery. It's a fact, and a very important one at that. We really don't have much of a clue about Latte apart from two things - it has the same amount of eDRAM as the One's GPU and it has a DX11-equivalent feature set. And that's it.

We don't have a clue how many ROPs or ALUs it has, have no idea. It's a completely custom GPU and we don't even know what GPU it's based on because it's been customised so much that its origins are completely unrecognisable.

And it should also be noted that not a single developer, named or anonymous, has complained about the GPU or RAM...quite the opposite in fact.

before he starts the secret sauce shit, remind him that WE don't know those details like flopage but devs do.

Exactly, how can anyone seriously consider the idea of some mysterious custom made gpu that nobody understands? It would be pretty bad on Nintendo's part to leave developers in the dark if they wanted to make a Wii U game. Those guys simply know how the Wii U works and they are complaining about the slow cpu and ram. Not in comparion to the ps4, but actually compared to the current gen consoles.



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Zero999 on 27 May 2013
goopy20 said:
Zero999 said:

before he starts the secret sauce shit, remind him that WE don't know those details like flopage but devs do.

Exactly, how can anyone seriously consider the idea of some mysterious custom made gpu that nobody understands? It would be pretty bad on Nintendo's part to leave developers in the dark if they wanted to make a Wii U game. Those guys simply know how the Wii U works and they are complaining about the slow cpu and ram. Not in comparion to the ps4, but actually compared to the current gen consoles.

you don't give up, do you? the only one complaining about wii us specs is you, someone who doesn't know what those specs are.

bolded: you don't understand =/= devs don't understanding.



g911turbo on 27 May 2013

Wow this thread has gone full circle. The initial question was related to sales. Nintendo still has a chance to turn around sales - especially with all this DRM crap going on with Microsoft and possibly Sony.



goopy20 on 28 May 2013
Zero999 said:
goopy20 said:
Zero999 said:

before he starts the secret sauce shit, remind him that WE don't know those details like flopage but devs do.

Exactly, how can anyone seriously consider the idea of some mysterious custom made gpu that nobody understands? It would be pretty bad on Nintendo's part to leave developers in the dark if they wanted to make a Wii U game. Those guys simply know how the Wii U works and they are complaining about the slow cpu and ram. Not in comparion to the ps4, but actually compared to the current gen consoles.

you don't give up, do you? the only one complaining about wii us specs is you, someone who doesn't know what those specs are.

bolded: you don't understand =/= devs don't understanding.

Come on now dude lol. Off course I don't understand the specs, but developers get paid to know those sort of things. They worked on it and this were basically the reactions we were getting from them. Don't shoot the messenger man.

EA Developer: Wii not powerful enough for next-gen titles

Wii U 'Has A Horrible, Slow CPU' Says Metro Last Light Dev

Unreal 4 skipping Wii U

Insomniac Not Working On Wii U, Considers It More "Current Gen

Wii U to miss out on 15 EA games using Frostbite Engine 3

 



Zero999 on 28 May 2013
goopy20 said:
Zero999 said:
goopy20 said:
Zero999 said:

before he starts the secret sauce shit, remind him that WE don't know those details like flopage but devs do.

Exactly, how can anyone seriously consider the idea of some mysterious custom made gpu that nobody understands? It would be pretty bad on Nintendo's part to leave developers in the dark if they wanted to make a Wii U game. Those guys simply know how the Wii U works and they are complaining about the slow cpu and ram. Not in comparion to the ps4, but actually compared to the current gen consoles.

you don't give up, do you? the only one complaining about wii us specs is you, someone who doesn't know what those specs are.

bolded: you don't understand =/= devs don't understanding.

Come on now dude lol. Off course I don't understand the specs, but developers get paid to know those sort of things. They worked on it and this were basically the reactions we were getting from them. Don't shoot the messenger man.

EA Developer: Wii not powerful enough for next-gen titles

Wii U 'Has A Horrible, Slow CPU' Says Metro Last Light Dev

Unreal 4 skipping Wii U

Insomniac Not Working On Wii U, Considers It More "Current Gen

Wii U to miss out on 15 EA games using Frostbite Engine 3

 

biased, lies, biased based on lies. you need more solid things.



snowdog on 28 May 2013
goopy20 said:
Zero999 said:
snowdog said:
It isn't pointless to keep reminding you that there's over a third of the silicon that's a complete mystery. It's a fact, and a very important one at that. We really don't have much of a clue about Latte apart from two things - it has the same amount of eDRAM as the One's GPU and it has a DX11-equivalent feature set. And that's it.

We don't have a clue how many ROPs or ALUs it has, have no idea. It's a completely custom GPU and we don't even know what GPU it's based on because it's been customised so much that its origins are completely unrecognisable.

And it should also be noted that not a single developer, named or anonymous, has complained about the GPU or RAM...quite the opposite in fact.

before he starts the secret sauce shit, remind him that WE don't know those details like flopage but devs do.

Exactly, how can anyone seriously consider the idea of some mysterious custom made gpu that nobody understands? It would be pretty bad on Nintendo's part to leave developers in the dark if they wanted to make a Wii U game. Those guys simply know how the Wii U works and they are complaining about the slow cpu and ram. Not in comparion to the ps4, but actually compared to the current gen consoles.



There isn't a single developer, named or anonymous, that's complained about the RAM. Developers have been praising it.

The Metro engine is a known CPU resource hog and the Wii U's architecture is completely different compared to the PS3 and 360. Once the PS4 and One are released developers will find it a great deal easier to port between the Wii U/PS4/One (which also have 'slow' CPUs) than it currently is to port between the Wii U/PS3/360.

As for EA and their stance on support, that's going to change before Christmas. Shareholders have already pressured them into supporting the console with a few titles by the looks of it, and when 3D Mario and Mario Kart 8 have been released you'll find EA adding even more support for the platform

And regarding Expresso, it should be noted that it has a ridiculously short pipeline (only 4 stages!!!) so will be a great deal more efficient than the PS4 and One CPUs. The PS4 CPU, for example, has 17 stages.