By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales Discussion - Will the PS4 outsell the XBox One and WiiU?

z101 on 30 May 2013
goopy20 said:
Zero999 said:
goopy20 said:
Zero999 said:

“The Wii U GPU is several generations ahead of the current gen. It allows many things that were not possible on consoles before. If you develop for Wii U you have to take advantage of these possibilities, otherwise your performance is of course limited. Also your engine layout needs to be different. You need to take advantage of the large shared memory of the Wii U, the huge and very fast EDRAM section and the big CPU caches in the cores. Especially the workings of the CPU caches are very important to master. Otherwise you can lose a magnitude of power for cache relevant parts of your code. In the end the Wii U specs fit perfectly together and make a very efficient console when used right.”

Shin'en multimidia.

Ok fine guys. The Wii U is a beast that will run something like Killzone 4 just fine. In 720p because, obviously, the console was designed as a 720p machine and has nothing to do with the lack of power that prevents it from running 1080p. All the AAA developers just don't know what the hell they are talking about. But listen to Shin'en multimedia who were able to pull of next gen graphics on the Wii-u with their 9,99 DLC title Nano Assault Neo and .... oh wait they only made that one game... Seriously now, It's a good game, but how is anyone supposed to take their tech advise seriously when their game could very likely run fine on a ps2?

Can't we just agree that people will buy a Wii U for it's exclusives, not for the graphics? What kind of next gen graphics do you guys seriously expect from a Mario kart and does it matter for games like that? You seem to forget that the Wii U already has a Mario game, which is actually pretty good and is sitting on a 84 Metacritic score. Those are the sort of games Nintendo needs more off and no Nintendo fan is going to care if it uses Tesselation, Dynamic GI or any other fancy DX11 rendering effects. What Nintendo doesn't need are weak sauce versions of core games because people who care about graphics will notice the difference between 720 and 1080p or dynamic vs pre-baked lighting.

bolded 1: EA and very few others talking shit out of their asses doesn't equal "All the AAA developers"

bolded 2: Apparently some people were blessed with a magical ps2.

bolded 3: people who cares about GAMES won't' give a shit to hard to notice resolution difference that just serves to make the games more expensive and inflate fanboys egos.

double bolded 1. We aren't talking about a few game developers here dude, we are talking about engine builders whose tech will power around 80% of all next gen games. Just because Frostbite 3 can't really work on the Wii U, all EA's major franchises like: Fifa, Mass Effect, Battlefield, NFS, Star Wars etc. won't be coming to the Wii U. Also explain to me why EA would make up things like that, or Insomniac, Epic, Capcom etc.

We all know that something has gone wrong between the officially announced "unprecended partnership" for Wii U between EA and Nintendo in 2011 and we surely now that Frostbite3 "not running" on Wii U is not a technical problem but a lame excuse for EA to dumb Nintendo. In 2011 EA surely has knowing about the Wii U hardware already and saw no problem with that, the Wii U hardware specs even got updated later on.

Capcom is making Wii U games. Their MT-Framework is already running on Wii U and the other next gen consoles. No one expected from Epic or Insomniac to make games for a Nintendo console anyway. Crytek praised the Wii U and had Crysis3 ready for Wii U but EA didn't want to publish it. CryEngine 3 is one of the technically most advanced engines and it is running on Wii U.

And a thing shocked some developer who received the first Wii U Kits and caused some statements about slow CPU: The Wii U Dev-Kits had an hidden error that caused the CPU to use only two cores instead of three in some situations. This error has been fixed not until the last Dev-Kits from November 2012.

 

Predictions (if PS4/XBox prize starts with 450€/$)

Wii U: 60-70 millions

PS4: 50-60 millions

Xbox: 70-80 millions



Things I like: Magic-Alchemist - The magic iPhone, Android and browser game:

www.magic-alchemist.com/

List of Nintendo Switch games (german):
http://www.zimmer101.de/nintendo-switch-spiele/

Around the Network
Jared19 on 30 May 2013

Most likely this PS4 (135m)
Xbox one (89m)
Wii U (idk million) way less than ps4 and xbox tho!



ironman on 30 May 2013

With too much still in limbo, I can't believe anybody has a legitimate reason to think any of these consoles will sell more than the others. Let's wait till E3 and try again after we get more. I mean, the WiiU was met with huge criticism so it doesn't look good for that. The PS4 was so vague nobody really knows anything concrete about it, so things don't really look good for that, and the Xbox One presentation left us with more questions than we had before the presentation, so things don't really look good for that. Let's hope E3 gives everybody a better idea of what each console is about.



Past Avatar picture!!!

Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!

DietSoap on 30 May 2013

Betting on PS4 > One > Wii U, and all things considered, I feel it's a pretty safe and boring bet at the moment.

What will be more interesting is who will win US and Japan. I could see PS4 taking back Japan, but just as well I could see the Wii U hunkering down on Japanese centric software more than Sony can afford to with it's two front war fighting for western software as well, and keeping Japan after it's first major price cut + major releases.

 For the US, I feel just about anything could happen. PS4 could blow the doors off the One early on in the US and never even give it the chance 360 had with price and software, and just as well all the people playing on LIVE for CoD regularly could carry over to One and even grow. M$ could definitely get serious with the western exclusives, and the sports focus might even go over well in the US.



Fifaguy360 on 30 May 2013

Depends if DRM policies persist with MS and not with PS.

Then Sony will win easily.

If both are equal on DRM BS, then I see Sony edging MS out.



Around the Network
AnthonyW86 on 31 May 2013
Pemalite said:
snowdog said:

And Anthony, you're not bursting anything at all. The Wii U can draw up to 75W, even with USB devices attached that still leaves plenty of wiggle room for the GPU to have a dual graphics engine. None of the games released so far are even beginning to push the Wii U hardware. Once a game that taxes the GPU more appears we'll get more of an idea of the power draw that the GPU has. You'll end up hearing in October once 3D Mario is released.


No, Anthony is correct.
It's logic.
If the Wii U can draw 75W, then that entire power draw will not be dedicated to just the GPU. - The Optical Drive, Flash Drive, Chipsets, pieces-of-other-logic, CPU, RAM will all take a chunk out of that number.
Plus the Wii U's GPU is built at 40nm, that's going to mean that less Transisters are dedicated to graphics or higher power consumption compared to if it was built at 28nm.
With that said, 40nm is incredibly mature, so it's cheap to fab chips on.

The 75W is the rating of the power supply, it has nothing to do with the actual power consumption. A poer supply always has to have headroom and it also has to be able to recharge the controller and ppower other USB devices.  This is from actual testing: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6465/nintendo-wii-u-teardown

 

''also took some power measurements on the Wii U. The system is powered by a 75W external power supply, but total system power consumption doesn't even hit half of that (at least with the games I tried):''

Wii U Power Consumption
  System Power Consumption in Watts
Standby (Power Off) 0.22W
Wii U Menu (No Disc in Drive) 31.2W
Wii U Menu (Disc in Drive) 32.8W
Super Mario U 33.0W
Netflix Playback 28.5W

 

 

Other tests confirm power consumption in the 30W in games, and it's much lower than ps3 and X360: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-wii-u-is-the-green-console

Wii U Xbox 360S PS3 Super Slim
Front-End 32w 67w 66w
FIFA 13 Demo 32w 76.5w 70w
Netflix HD 29w 65w 62.5w


Zero999 on 31 May 2013
AnthonyW86 said:
snowdog said:
goopy20 said:
snowdog said:
And it should also be pointed out that you shouldn't judge a console on specs alone, a few developers have noted that the GPU 'punches above its weight'. It wouldn't surprise me if the CPU and RAM performance is the same.

And even if their performance reflects the specs it still isn't going to have any problems handling down-ports from the PS4 and One.

The gpu does punch above it's weight but only compared to current gen consoles. People did actually figure out what is in the Wii U and it has about 1,5 the raw computing power of the 360's GPU, and off course twice the memory. Not bad by today's standards but a far cry from a true next machine like the ps4.

the final GPU is indeed a close match to the 4650/4670, albeit with a deficit in the number of texture-mapping units and a lower clock speed - 550MHz. AMD's RV770 hardware is well documented so with these numbers we can now, categorically, finally rule out any next-gen pretensions for the Wii U - the GCN hardware in Durango and Orbis is in a completely different league. However, the 16 TMUs at 550MHz and texture cache improvements found in RV770 do elevate the capabilities of this hardware beyond the Xenos GPU in the Xbox 360 - 1.5 times the raw shader power sounds about right. [Update: It's generally accepted that the PS3 graphics core is less capable than Xenos, so Wii U's GPU would be even more capable.] 1080p resolution is around 2.5x that of 720p, so bearing in mind the inclusion of just eight ROPs, it's highly unlikely that we'll be seeing any complex 3D titles running at 1080p.

We are talking about a 600% difference just from the gpu and I am not even going to begin about the 8 core CPU and 7 gigs of GDDR5. All I know is that if developers can't show a big leap i n graphics between both platforms, then they are doing a piss poor job.



Latte bears no resemblance whatsoever to an RV770, we have no idea of the ROPs (although 8 is most likely), TMUs, ALUs, Compute Units. None of it. You really need to take a look at the Latte thread on Gaf. I'm beginning to subscribe to the theory that Latte has dual graphics engines. It fits with the unknown parts of the GPU pretty much.

In terms of raw power it should be between the previous gen and this gen, and won't have much of a problem running down-ports, as I've previously said.

I am sorry to burst your bubble there but that's impossible. There is one know fact about the Wii-U hardware, it only uses a little over 30W even in games. That alone proves there is no way that the Wii-U can ever be close to a PS4/ Xbox One in power, let alone sport dual graphics engines.

More importantly both PS4 and Xbox One have an APU design with cpu and gpu on the same chip. This allows developers to share heavy computing tasks between cpu and gpu, something Wii-U can not do. The APU design alone already puts PS4 and Xbox One in a different generation speed wise.

hey genius, didn't you see the video where iwata shows the wii u interior? the gpu and cpu are "fused" on the same chip too.



Zero999 on 31 May 2013

hey guys, my electric shower uses 300w so it should be able to run the agnil's philosofy demo, right?



Pemalite on 31 May 2013
AnthonyW86 said:

The 75W is the rating of the power supply, it has nothing to do with the actual power consumption. A poer supply always has to have headroom and it also has to be able to recharge the controller and ppower other USB devices.  This is from actual testing: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6465/nintendo-wii-u-teardown

 

''also took some power measurements on the Wii U. The system is powered by a 75W external power supply, but total system power consumption doesn't even hit half of that (at least with the games I tried):''

Wii U Power Consumption
  System Power Consumption in Watts
Standby (Power Off) 0.22W
Wii U Menu (No Disc in Drive) 31.2W
Wii U Menu (Disc in Drive) 32.8W
Super Mario U 33.0W
Netflix Playback 28.5W

 

 

Other tests confirm power consumption in the 30W in games, and it's much lower than ps3 and X360: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-wii-u-is-the-green-console

  Wii U Xbox 360S PS3 Super Slim
Front-End 32w 67w 66w
FIFA 13 Demo 32w 76.5w 70w
Netflix HD 29w 65w 62.5w


I'm aware.
They also need to take into account of capacitor aging, so gave it a little more headroom. - In-case you didn't know Power supply's actually loose efficiency and maximum wattage throughput due to capacitor aging, pretty much all devices actually have PSU's over-specced to their needs as it's not uncommon to loose 10% off the maximum wattage number over a long time frame.
Even the ambient temperature can effect the maximum wattage and how efficient a PSU is, it's always wise to over-engineer such a part.

With that said, a 70w PC GPU is comparably crap, especially one built at 40nm, the Wii U likely has something far inferior to that.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

snowdog on 31 May 2013

The entire power draw at the moment is on average 33W. Again, this is with games that aren't pushing the hardware. I didn't for a second suggest that this power draw was all reserved for the GPU. And those components you've mentioned aren't going to drawtthat much power. The CPU, GPU and USB devices will draw the most.