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Forums - Nintendo - Why don't you support your beloved Nintendo?

JazzB1987 on 02 March 2013

Another thing that came to my mind while I watched the Digital Foundry Crysis 3 comparison is:

Third party has NO idea how to sustain smooth framerate. I remember when I bought Castlevania on 360 I didnt even fight the first monster. The framerate was so shitty I had no fun at all and now the game sits in my shelf for I dunno 3 years or so?

Seriously it should be ILLEGAL by law to make games that drop below 30 fps.  Nintendo games NEVER do this  I cant remember a single Zelda  Mario  etc game do drop below 30.   

Remember F-Zero GX?  30+ cars, awesome visuals smooth framerate!



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bananaking21 on 02 March 2013
Kaizar said:
crissindahouse said:
Kaizar said:

Actually, recently a lot of Wii U owners have purchased Assassin's Creed 3 for like $40 in the eShop, and have already downloaded it in 6 to 8 hours per Console.

And COD on Wii U is the only HD version outside of PC, plus it does 5 players, so the sales will get at least decent in time.

the wii u version is also only 880x720. source is digital foundry.


As long as its at least 720x720, then it's HD, specifically 720p in this case.

I'm pretty sure.

thats not HD. you do realize that that ratio isnt even 16:9 like all HD tv's right?



hsrob on 02 March 2013
d21lewis said:
JazzB1987 said:
Deyon said:

Nintendo fans whine about 3rd party developers not supporting the Wii U and act like the 3rd party devs hate Nintendo and wants them to fail, which is not true at all.

If you love Nintendo so much why don't you support it by buying 3rd party games on the Wii U instead of getting them on different consoles? .

Every Nintendo fan who bought CoD or Assassin's Creed 3 on the PS3/Xbox360 should've bought those games on the Wii U, but that didn't happen and now you're blaming the developers for not wanting to make games on a console they won't get any money from.


I think you missunderstand something. I am Nintendo Fan and I dont care about third party anymore. Its mostly other people that whine about third party support. I mean sure it would be nice to have the third party support but that wont happen. Btw: 1 Game =/= support. Whining about a fanbase =/= support but thats another story.

I am pretty sure that after N64 and Gamecube well and Wii    alot of Nintendo fans are used to third party being absent. I am. Thats why I bought other systems starting with the Gamecube era but not for EA or Activison games for MORE games in general.

And I dont really care about third party anymore.  I mean they ignored the Nintendo fanbase with stupid excuses etc then promise something break their promises etc. they constantly do this.

They hide come out once per generation try a little bit and then give up   just to come back once per generation. They expect short term profit in a situation like this which is really dumb.

Why third party on Nintendo doesnt really work is this: 
They ignore Nintendo and constantly show N's userbase that third party is nothing you can count on/nothing you need. (the longer they are absent the harder it gets to convince Nintendo players that third party games are worth it) 

Then they try once to reach the nintendo fanbase and give up.
If other people are like me they WAIT and see if the third party game/port is good enough and then maybe buy the discounted game to see how it is or they wait for the second or third game in the series to come out. (to see if devs keep the quality level)

I am not willing to risk my 50-60 dollars anymore only to find out a game is shit thats why I wait for discounted games when it comes to third party games (but publishers automatically assume the game flopped which is not really true and then go back to ignore mode which automatically makes me hesistant to buy the next game again because if there is no constant support or the ports are handled by external studios there is no guaruantee the game will be good)
THIS IS STUPID!

They burned us so often that they NEED to convince us that the games are worth it!
( Yeah! Resident Evil for Wii!  Oh wait its a crappy rail shooter.....   Yeah! Dragon Quest for Wii!  oh wait its a crappy rail-rpg......  Yeah! Dead Space for Wii!  Oh wait its a crappy rail shooter.....   Stuff like this hurts the third party alot the games might be good but its not what people want! Or all those cheap 5 dollar production value games/shovelware....)

Thats the problem. Show me support that LASTS and then I might not be so scared and might actually buy a game. I mean the 60 dollars are worth more to me than to them since I dont earn 100000000 a month like  publishers do! 

Its not working because companies are stupid they want short term profit! With a userbase they abandoned. How should this work? They come out with cheap versions or shovelware and get their short term profit but at the same time establish themselves as crappy companies! The way to go would be  accept short term loss and establish quality brands/games (does not work with absence!!!!)  etc among the Nintendo userbase and then you can expect a steady increase of long term profit. This is how business works.

Lazyness prevents them from earning more money. Well whose fault is that? 

There is tons of ways to fix this problem  start with simple stuff like:

  • Don't sell WiiU games for 70!!! while the PS360 version costs 60!!! THIS DOES NOT HELP!!!!!
  • WiiU versions of games should (for a year or so) come out 2 weeks prior to the competitions consoles. People that dont care what platform the game is on but that want to be among the first to play it will buy the WiiU version.
  • It makes no sense to bring out old games  or bring out games 1-2 week later to the new console (Call of Duty where most WiiU owners buy the other version anyway because their friends play other versions NOT WiiU FIX THIS WITH CROSS PLATFORM MULTIPLAYER!!!) or bring out single games and at the same time announce a trilogy for the competition. (Mass Effect).



P.S.
As mentioned above I started to buy other systems because there were not enough games on my Nintendo systems. BUT I almost only own exclusives for any console I have. I have like every first party game for PS2, PS3 and 360. I also have almost every second party game or third party exclusive. And if I have a "normal" third party games its only because the predecessor was an exclusive (like Dead or Alive 4/5)

This shows that my doubt about third party didnt disappear it found its way to my newer systems. Would be interesting to see how many former "Nintendo-only" players ignore games from EA/Activision etc... and bought their new consoles for MORE quality titles and not THIRD PARTY in general.

P.S. I also ignore almost every DLC game until it gets a GOTY edition (Borderlands 1, Batman Arkham City, Red Dead Redemption, GTA 4 etc.) or costs like $10 (Final Fantasy 13-2)


Flawed Summary:

  1. Nintendo owners are partially scared to burn money because of third party quality.
  2. Nintendo owners are not used to third party and need time to get used to them.
  3. Nintendo owners cannot get used to third party because third party constantly disappears.
  4. Nintendo owners might be the most "aware"/conservative video game consumers (no DLC games etc.)
  5. Publishers should not focus on short term profit but on long term profit.
  6. Publishers should constantly support and not jump ship after 1 fail they should establish themselves its in their own interest.
  7. Publishers should do a Microsoft and accept a loss to gain access to a userbase/territory (MS doesnt give up Japan!)
  8. Publishers should work not whine!

If anyore made it to the end. Thank you for reading this mess ;)


You're welcome.  I actually agree with almost all of it, too.

I likewise agree with this.  Anyone who claims a Nintendo system has actually had good thirdy party support since.....since a long time ago is just wrong.  Third parties cannot expect everyone to immediately jump on board because they've now decided system version parity is a good idea.

A sustained effort and then see what happens.  People who've learned to subsist on a diet of Nintendo only will start to realise that there's other good stuff on the menu, but it's not going to happen overnight.



Mnementh on 02 March 2013
pezus said:
Mnementh said:

Well, I see this thread is another: "stupid and evil Nintendo-fans don't buy godly 3rd-party". Well, let's take a look. You claim AC and COD are "the 2 most popular/biggest franchises this gen". OK, let's compare with another 3rd-party-franchise - Just Dance.

AC I (X360): 5.26M
AC I (PS3): 4.52M
AC II (PS3): 5.34M
AC II (X360): 5.07M
AC III (PS3): 4.66M
AC III (X360): 4.14M

Call of Duty is much bigger (>10M per title), but it is also that much, that I don't look into the sales detailed.

Just Dance (Wii): 6.95M
Just Dance 2 (Wii): 9.38M
Just Dance 3 (Wii): 9.77M
Just Dance 4 (Wii): 5.19M

 You see Just Dance is a smaller franchise than COD but bigger than AC and is fully supported by Nintendo-fans. So the assumption to your thread is already wrong: Nintendo-faans support third-party. The 3rd-party only has to care about the Nintendo-fans.

And just for laughs:
Just Dance 4 (X360): 0.84M
Just dance 4 (PS3): 0.24M
Am I now allowed to assume, that Sony- and MS-fans don't support 3rd-parties?

Why would Sony and MS fans buy mediocre 3rd party games like just dance? And no, AC is bigger than JD. Dont know how you came to the opposite conclusion when every mainline ac sells 10m+ and the others have sold 8-10 or so 

If you count the PS3-version and the X360-version together (and I agree that is fair) only ACII sold more than 10M - and that barely. ACI sold the same as JD2 and JD3, ACIII so far less (but JD4 may get more sales over time too and is also multiplat, so these version could be added too). So basically JD and AC are franchises of the same size. I agree COD is bigger. But my point stands, the Wii-owners supported a third-party franchise as big as AC, that was named of the OP as very popular (and I agree on that). So if 3rd-parties really try they get sales on Nintendo-platforms. So why do Sony-fans always whine about bad sales of third-parties on Nintendo-platforms (why they care about it in the first place? And don't try to deny, that you and Deyon are Sony-fans) as this is not even true. Just Dance proffs that 3rd-party games sell on Nintendo-platforms. So the OP is starting from wrong assumptions.



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Mnementh on 02 March 2013

Tachikoma said:

AC1, 2 and 3 are split between two primary platforms, just dance requires non-essential hardware for the ps3/360 to function, where as with the wii that hardware is included with the console, but i degress, once just dance went multiplatform with 4 (3 appeared on 360 but was somewhat of a misnomer), the overall wii sales for it dropped.

Either way dancing games on the ps3 and 360 are a niche market based on the average age of the core audience, however titles such as AC appeal more to the average gamer on the ps3 and 360, thus splitting the sales, but since we're talking about FRANCHISES, and not individual console sales, combine them and see if your argument still holds true.

 

AC I (console): 9.78M
AC II (console): 10.41M
AC III (console): 8.80M

AC I (all): 10.54M
AC II (all): 10.88M
AC III (all): 9.25M

The all ammount includes PC version physical copies only, purchases made on steam/origin/etc digital content providers is not included, with are more often than not significantly higher than the physical copy counterparts.


Just Dance (Wii): 6.95M
Just Dance 2 (Wii): 9.38M
Just Dance 3 (Wii): 9.77M
Just Dance 4 (Wii): 5.19M + 1.08m - 6.27m

That's before factoring in the PC sales for AC 1 2 and 3, too.

I agree with your numbers and it is fair to add the platforms. but as you see, AC and JD have the same size (in the area of tracking-errors of VGC), and JD is basically only supported by Wii-owners. So 3rd-parties can sell on Nintendo-platforms, they only have to try. Also notice that the combined install-base of PS3 and X360 is bigger than the Wii and you also add PC-sales. So attach-rate for AC is far lower than for JD.



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Mnementh on 02 March 2013
radiantshadow92 said:
seriously AC mediocre? da fuc lol. id play a story driven sandbox over a guy that jumps on mushrooms anyday

No problem with that (and i don't say AC is mediocre). But you have to accept you're a minority, more people seem to enjoy mushroom-hopping looking at the sales.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, 2025 

10 years greatest game event!

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Mnementh on 02 March 2013
Jay520 said:
I guess this means Just Dance and Mario vs Sonic are as good as the average Nintendo game.

Yes, that means it. If I like Zelda more than Just Dance (and think it's a better game), than it is my personal opinion. More people actually think Just Dance is the better game, as they not only bought one, but the sequels too. And it is the better game for these people - it let them have the fun they want to have. I have fun to play Zelda, but that makes me part of a smaller group.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, 2025 

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [GTA6]

Cobretti2 on 02 March 2013
pezus said:
Cobretti2 said:
Deyon said:
mii-gamer said:

you can't expect every nintendo fan to buy these game. Maybe it's not their type of game, maybe they dont have the money or maybe they dont have a wii u yet. Please don't generalize.

Those are the 2 most popular/biggest franchises this gen, if Nintendo fans don't want them i don't know what they want.

The biggest problem is this.

COD used to suck before modern warfare. All consoles were doing comparible numberes.

Then when IW told Activision to fuck off they will nto do a Wii port it meant that the explosion of the series happeend only on 360 and ps3. From that point in time the franchises had established user bases. 

People are not just going to SHIFT unless all their friends shift. 

CoD used to suck? Dude, you did not just say that. Unless you mean the console ports/spinoffs, then I agree.


sorry poor choice of words. COD was seen as a "ANOTHER WW2 game". When it become modern warfare well suddenly a lot of people got interested in the franchise.



 

 

Cobretti2 on 02 March 2013
JazzB1987 said:

Another thing that came to my mind while I watched the Digital Foundry Crysis 3 comparison is:

Third party has NO idea how to sustain smooth framerate. I remember when I bought Castlevania on 360 I didnt even fight the first monster. The framerate was so shitty I had no fun at all and now the game sits in my shelf for I dunno 3 years or so?

Seriously it should be ILLEGAL by law to make games that drop below 30 fps.  Nintendo games NEVER do this  I cant remember a single Zelda  Mario  etc game do drop below 30.   

Remember F-Zero GX?  30+ cars, awesome visuals smooth framerate!


and no load screens. They integrate loading into parts of the game (i.e. like opening a door) to make it appear smoother in that regard.



 

 

jake_the_fake1 on 02 March 2013

If Nintendo fans want 3rd parties to flood the console, then here is what Fans of Nintendo need to do, they need to STOP BUYING NINTENDO GAMES!!!

If Nintendo see it's financials crash cuz they are making almost no money on their games, they will be forced to work with 3rd parties and forcing them to remove their tight policies in a bid to build better relations with 3rd party developers.

We have a good example this gen, Sony was humbled with the PS3 after everything they did, they worked hard to make programming for the cell as easy as possible for developers, they developed the phyre engine that 3rd parties could use to make their lives easier, they even had a special teams that went from developer to developer helping them, teaching them, how to code correctly to extract performance. In essence Sony tried it's best to accommodate developers and to their success in fostering good 3rd party relations Sony got Valve to put thier games on the PS3 after the head hincho Gabe Newell publically pointed out his negative opinions about the PS3. Now with the PS4 we have Sony continuing  this mind set with developers to the point where no 3rd party developer thus far had made any bad or negative comment about the PS4.

Nintendo should take a page from Sony's book and try foster relations with 3rd parties, and it seems that the only way to force them to do this, is for the Nintendo fans to use their wallets to make Nintendo wake up. I know this will be hard for the Nintendo fans as it's something that will rub them the wrong way, but it's either fans do something or simply shut up, put up with Nintendo's direction and leave it at that.

The other crazy solution is to simply not purchase any more hard or software form Nintendo, allow them to follow sega, and then enjoy Nintendo games on the PS5 and the xbox 4 when Nintendo finnally jonis the likes of EA, Sega, and Activision-blizzaed.