By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - To the Atheist members of vgchartz

Andrespetmonkey said:

kljesta64 said:

If he exists and you dont believe in him you go to hell but if you believe you go to heaven..there is nothing you can lose..so why not ? and if he doesnt exist then he doesnt exist you wont ruin your life or anything like that..thats simple logic and everyone should agree IMO.

What God(s) are you talking about? There are literally thousands I could believe in. How could you possibly know you choose the right God(s) to believe in? What if I believe in the Christian God but it turns out Islam is the correct religion? I'd be just as fucked as the atheist.

You also can't jsut flip a switch in your head and suddenly believe in something. Even if I really wanted to, I'd need the sufficient evidence to truly believe.

you have to find out for yourself in which god to believe lol

if you have evidence then what is there to believe in ? :S

believing is like love there is no evidence its just a part you



Tsubasa Ozora

Keiner kann ihn bremsen, keiner macht ihm was vor. Immer der richtige Schuss, immer zur richtigen Zeit. Superfussball, Fairer Fussball. Er ist unser Torschützenkönig und Held.

Around the Network
DanneSandin said:
kljesta64 said:
TO ALL YOU LOGICAL PEOPLE OUT THERE TELL ME WHY NOT BELIEVE IN GOD ?

If he exists and you dont believe in him you go to hell but if you believe you go to heaven..there is nothing you can lose..so why not ? and if he doesnt exist then he doesnt exist you wont ruin your life or anything like that..thats simple logic and everyone should agree IMO.

If god is anything like what is depicted in the bible and/or the qur'an or most religion, I rather take my chances as an atheist since I find the Abrahamic god to be very, very cruel and the most evil thing there ever was.


? are you sayin he will punish you no matter what ?



Tsubasa Ozora

Keiner kann ihn bremsen, keiner macht ihm was vor. Immer der richtige Schuss, immer zur richtigen Zeit. Superfussball, Fairer Fussball. Er ist unser Torschützenkönig und Held.

"My question to the athiest member's of vgchartz is if you had a faith why did you leave it-..."

 

A combination between this: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=152041&page=1

and this: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=142384&page=1

 

After having such thoughs, it made no sense for me to stay religious. No matter how I twisted it, God came off as unjust.

 

"-...and how has your life changed since becoming an athiest?"

 

Not much, except I don't fear thinking curse words anymore. My relatives have no idea that I am no longer religious though. Telling them would be too risky at this point. They are all very kind, but I have no idea how they would react.



kljesta64 said:
TO ALL YOU LOGICAL PEOPLE OUT THERE TELL ME WHY NOT BELIEVE IN GOD ?

If he exists and you dont believe in him you go to hell but if you believe you go to heaven..there is nothing you can lose..so why not ? and if he doesnt exist then he doesnt exist you wont ruin your life or anything like that..thats simple logic and everyone should agree IMO.

You just posed Pascal's wager. Which is a really poor position on several grounds:

1) logical and mathematical ground 

There's no more reason to believe in an omnipotent being that rewards what we generally perceive as good and faith than there's of an omnipotent being that doesn't care about our faith or morality, or even a malignant demon that punishes the pious and rewards free thinkers. As such, all the infinite unsubstantiated possibilities cancel out and there's no definite advantage in game theoretical terms in choosing a behavior or religious position over any other.

2) behavioral grounds

You can't force yourself to believe in something. Belief is a subjective property, not something you can fake in front of an omniscient being

3) moral grounds

Even if you could force yourself to believe something or if you decided to act according to a given moral rule because you weighted the pros and cons of Pascal's wager, it would be an amoral choice, stemming uniquely from a logical pursuit of maximum satisfaction. A judeo-christian god, being the ultimate moral compass, would find such behavior hypocritical and devoid of real ethical meaning.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

WereKitten said:

3) moral grounds

Even if you could force yourself to believe something or if you decided to act according to a given moral rule because you weighted the pros and cons of Pascal's wager, it would be an amoral choice, stemming uniquely from a logical pursuit of maximum satisfaction. A judeo-christian god, being the ultimate moral compass, would find such behavior hypocritical and devoid of real ethical meaning.

That's interesting, but I think this example is  useful to explain what is faith.

(btw. I'm not a religious person but I've studied, for some reasons long to explain, a bit of christian theology).

Since the ultimate message of Jesus life, and in the end the ultimate message of christianity is to donate everything you possess and yourself to others (donate even your life), considering the matter of donating your life from the Pascal's wager point of view wouldn't even make sense if you don't firmly believe in the existence of god and in the existence of something beyond life (you wouldn't have any pros). Then if you belive in god so firmly to be ready to give up on everything, it means you must consider its message ethical. If you're believing in god because you are scared of it, it means you are just trying to protect yourself and your integrity from god, any person in this situation won't be reasonably willing to give up on everything, including life.



Around the Network

if you choose to believe just because you want to go to heaven, its justified IMO and even a priest will tell you the same thing. that is if you want to be a part of somethig you must choose you cant just wait for it to happen and that is also justified. something wrong with this ? i dont think so :S people do always say like "god made me like this" and "no one gave me the chance" there is a chance and there is nothing wrong with that...you learn through life maybe your not such a great believer but you will learn it i takes time..at the end of our lives everyone will say "oh GOD".

no you cant force yourself to believe in something but you can get used to it after a while

and maybe who knows find yourself that you really believe on god. it can happen



Tsubasa Ozora

Keiner kann ihn bremsen, keiner macht ihm was vor. Immer der richtige Schuss, immer zur richtigen Zeit. Superfussball, Fairer Fussball. Er ist unser Torschützenkönig und Held.

I used to be Muslim. As a kid, I would just do as I was told and never really think about it. Even though a lot of it often seemed arbitrary, and sometimes even ridiculous. I don't remember a specific moment when I decided I was atheist. It just happened over time as I learned to think for myself. I noticed how irrational, contradictory, and plain silly the stuff they believed was.

Anyways, my life hasn't changed much, except I stopped doing some stuff. I stopped going to weekly prayers, my dad was too cool to act like it bothered him haha. My mom tried to persuade me to go back, but I didn't, and they kind of forgot about it. I guess they figured I'd come around eventually. I was lucky to have such nice parents. I know a friend whose dad forced him to pray as a kid.



anybody going to tell me how to become a believer ?



Tsubasa Ozora

Keiner kann ihn bremsen, keiner macht ihm was vor. Immer der richtige Schuss, immer zur richtigen Zeit. Superfussball, Fairer Fussball. Er ist unser Torschützenkönig und Held.

sales2099 said:
Its interesting how atheists only really exist in Christian dominated areas of the world. Most of them are rebellious teens.

Sigh.....

LOL, or is it a fact, that VGChartz demography covers more the christian dominated regions of the world instead of the muslim or buddhist countries?

To counter that thing: some chinese and japanese people I knowed while studying (they were studying in germany) are atheists too, so probably also in  buddhist or shinto-region you can find atheists. It only show you only read the english part of the internet, that is dominated by christian countries.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, 2025 

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [GTA6]

TheLastStarFighter said:
Andrespetmonkey 0 minutes ago
TheLastStarFighter said:
Slayer, as has been thrown about here, you aren't an atheist, you are an agnostic. You aren't saying their isn't a God, you are saying that you would need proof to believe in one. If this is your stance, I would see little reason for conflict. Being an evangelical atheist...that I could see would bring conflict...and is somewhat ironic.

I think by default people are atheists, or agnostic atheists. The way I define it is: I lack a belief in God, but there may well be one. If I say "I don't know" then I don't believe in one by default. I don't think any atheists, even the Dawkins-like ones, assert that there is absolutely no God.

Many people are atheists.  This would mean that they believe there is no God.  Many people I know with this "faith" are difficult to deal with when it comes to spiritual/life-meaning discussions. They are condescending to people who have spiritual beliefs, thinking they believe in fairy tales.  This is somewhat funny because there is no way to prove their isn't a God.

I don't think that all people are default agnostic atheists.  I don't think that all people are anything, other than people.  And saying you don't know does not default to saying their isn't a God any more than it defaults to saying their is one. On questions of opinion, there are no default answers.  That's like saying when doing an AIDS test if the results are inconclusive you have HIV by default.

No, it is different. If you not believe anything, you're not agnostic or anything, you're really an atheist. Look at Russell's teapot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

If I don't believe in the teapot, I'm not a possible believer. Sure, if someone proofs there is one with undeniable facts, then I will believe it, but the default is unbelieving.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, 2025 

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [GTA6]