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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Article: The Anomoly that is Gran Turismo vs Forza Motorsport

A_C_E on 17 December 2012
fillet said:
thismeintiel said:
Nsanity said:
A_C_E said:
Nsanity said:

Demos dont come with 16-player online races withover 70 cars (including tuned cars), 6 tracks, 12 layouts.

It wasn't called GT demo, it was called GT prologue. It was also just an introduction to a game that people had to pay for inorder to play. PD pretty much earned what they paid with just the Prologue. It was a fraction; a taste of what the final game would be like and 5 million people flocked their way to this unfinished game.

That is undescribable. That is power.

Try explaining that to thismeintiel.

Lol, why should he?  He and I probably agree on this.  GT Prologue wasn't just an ordinary demo, hence why places like Joystiq and IGN  and fans of the series were calling it an extended/glorified demo.  So, everyone knew what they were getting with the game.  Just a taste (70 cars compared to 1000 cars and 6 tracks compared to 31 tracks, so ~7%-8% of the final game) of what would be in the final GT5, and they still bought in droves (over 4M).  Now when Forza can achieve something like that, you give me a call.


No no no.

They got the full experience just not a lot of the full experience.

It's like having roast dinner and only getting to eat a small amount of each item on the plate. The way you put it, it's like they got a load of gravy and that's it.

If you don't like my easy to swallow analogy then how about this. Prologue contained the whole game engine, excluding a few tweaks and possible a slight graphical upgrade, but the whole game engine was there. 70 cars is more than most games have altogether by a multitude of times and 6 tracks is 6 times what you'd get in a demo  and therefore the game has enough juice in it to provide many hours of fun and not leave a "I need more now" feeling that a demo might give.

Now before you go and say that all demos have the whole game engine in them, I'd say yes true enough. But games you will be thinking of in that context are games where the engine is the tool to deliver the game. In GT the game engine IS THE GAME.

7%-8% figure you list is highly misleading and a very poor argument because if you reverse that, they got 95% of the game engine, and what's more important, the game engine or the 940 cars and 20+ extra tracks?

GT was built using an engine just like all the other games out there, you can't twist that. The amount of cars in other games is irrelevant because GT is not other games. GT 1/2/3/4 all had MANY more cars than Prologue, not only that but were complete games with many more hours and much more content. My last point is that a demo will contain a small percentage of the final game. Prologue is a small percentage of the final product believe it or not its just that it contains more than every other demo out there which is why they were able to charge for it. Essentially just a glorified demo like others have said.



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A_C_E on 17 December 2012
Nsanity said:
thismeintiel said:
Nsanity said:
A_C_E said:
Nsanity said:

Demos dont come with 16-player online races withover 70 cars (including tuned cars), 6 tracks, 12 layouts.

It wasn't called GT demo, it was called GT prologue. It was also just an introduction to a game that people had to pay for inorder to play. PD pretty much earned what they paid with just the Prologue. It was a fraction; a taste of what the final game would be like and 5 million people flocked their way to this unfinished game.

That is undescribable. That is power.

Try explaining that to thismeintiel.

Lol, why should he?  He and I probably agree on this.  GT Prologue wasn't just an ordinary demo, hence why places like Joystiq and IGN  and fans of the series were calling it an extended/glorified demo.  So, everyone knew what they were getting with the game.  Just a taste (70 cars compared to 1000 cars and 6 tracks compared to 31 tracks, so ~7%-8% of the final game) of what would be in the final GT5, and they still bought in droves (over 4M).  Now when Forza can achieve something like that, you give me a call.

Fact still remains that Gran Turismo 5 Prologue was marketed as a full retail game that was priced at $39.99 and there is nothing you or some random reviewer can change about that.

Well then that is some intense brand loyalty.



A_C_E on 17 December 2012
Nsanity said:
thismeintiel said:
Nsanity said:
thismeintiel said:
Nsanity said:

Try explaining that to thismeintiel.

Lol, why should he?  He and I probably agree on this.  GT Prologue wasn't just an ordinary demo, hence why places like Joystiq and IGN  and fans of the series were calling it an extended/glorified demo.  So, everyone knew what they were getting with the game.  Just a taste (70 cars compared to 1000 cars and 6 tracks compared to 31 tracks, so ~7%-8% of the final game) of what would be in the final GT5, and they still bought in droves (over 4M).  Now when Forza can achieve something like that, you give me a call.

Fact still remains that Gran Turismo 5 Prologue was marketed as a full retail game that was priced at $39.99 and there is nothing you or some random reviewer can change about that.

Actually, it's the other way around.  No random poster can change the fact that everyone knew that GT5:P was an extended demo.  If it makes you feel better to think that, since a demo of GT5 sold more than 2 FULL Forza titles (maybe 3), go right ahead. 

I dont see demo written anywhere on the box Pinocchio, do you?

Lol read the description on the back:

The best-selling racing series returns with the intense precursor to Gran Turismo 5.

You posted the wrong pic, your supposed to support your own arguement.



fillet on 17 December 2012
thismeintiel said:
fillet said:
thismeintiel said:
Nsanity said:

Try explaining that to thismeintiel.

Lol, why should he?  He and I probably agree on this.  GT Prologue wasn't just an ordinary demo, hence why places like Joystiq and IGN  and fans of the series were calling it an extended/glorified demo.  So, everyone knew what they were getting with the game.  Just a taste (70 cars compared to 1000 cars and 6 tracks compared to 31 tracks, so ~7%-8% of the final game) of what would be in the final GT5, and they still bought in droves (over 4M).  Now when Forza can achieve something like that, you give me a call.


No no no.

They got the full experience just not a lot of the full experience.

It's like having roast dinner and only getting to eat a small amount of each item on the plate. The way you put it, it's like they got a load of gravy and that's it.

If you don't like my easy to swallow analogy then how about this. Prologue contained the whole game engine, excluding a few tweaks and possible a slight graphical upgrade, but the whole game engine was there. 70 cars is more than most games have altogether by a multitude of times and 6 tracks is 6 times what you'd get in a demo  and therefore the game has enough juice in it to provide many hours of fun and not leave a "I need more now" feeling that a demo might give.

Now before you go and say that all demos have the whole game engine in them, I'd say yes true enough. But games you will be thinking of in that context are games where the engine is the tool to deliver the game. In GT the game engine IS THE GAME.

7%-8% figure you list is highly misleading and a very poor argument because if you reverse that, they got 95% of the game engine, and what's more important, the game engine or the 940 cars and 20+ extra tracks?

That has to be the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard/read.  So, if I download a demo that lasts an hour, and really enjoyed it, I shouldn't get the full game.  I mean I still got the game engine in the demo.  Who cares if I got like 1/10th of the content?  Yep, I said it, anyway.  Why?  Cause it points out just how ridiculous your argument is.

Besides, everyone knew things like graphics and physics would be improved before the final release.

 

70 cars/6 tracks....a demo?  I remember when it came out, the likes you and ethomaz would have been heralding it as so good it's like a full game. In fact I remember nearly all the fans on message boards talking in those terms. Now when that position doesn't suit them for a different argument, they change it - entirely.

It was the detractors that were calling it nothing but a glorified demo. I am neither.



Michael-5 on 17 December 2012
fillet said:

 

70 cars/6 tracks....a demo?  I remember when it came out, the likes you and ethomaz would have been heralding it as so good it's like a full game. In fact I remember nearly all the fans on message boards talking in those terms. Now when that position doesn't suit them for a different argument, they change it - entirely.

It was the detractors that were calling it nothing but a glorified demo. I am neither.

Are any of those cars/tracks not in GT5? No? Was this game ever a full pried retail game? No? So if this isn't an early pass to GT5, GT5 an expansion of this game, right? Which is it?

Glorified Demo is a bit strong, but not necesarily untrue because this isn't a full game, and only a taste of what GT5 is. Prologue is a Prologue, not a full story on it's own, an intro. GT5P is an intro to GT5.



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Jaywood2010 on 17 December 2012
man-bear-pig said:
Jay520 said:
It's not Sales2099's account.

Check out his posts

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/profile/87816/sales2099/posts/#content


It is Sales2099.

It doesn't show on his posts because he was logged out when he submitted the thread, so he shows up as a non-entity.

This has happened to me and Amp316 before. If you start a thread, log out in another window and then submit the thread in the window where you're still signed in, the thread shows up just like this (with an invisible author).


Happened to me too last week.  I was logged out and turned into an invisible author.  i asked for it to be locked though.




       

Carl on 17 December 2012
Michael-5 said:

I completly disagree. You can't compare shipped units on one medium, refusing VGC data, and then use VGC data for the other. If you're going to compare GT5 to Forza, you compare it based on sales. Forza 3, 4 and Horizon have shipped many onsold units too.

Also, I was refering to console games only. When people play GT/Forza as simulation racing games at their finest, I don't think they even put GT PSP on the same level. It's portable Gran Turismo, nothing more (well a great game imo).

Fair enough, opinions will vary on that matter all the time.

Going by VGChartz data, the 4 Forza console games have indeed currently outsold the 2 console Gran Turismo games... But, if youre talking the SIM games, is it right to include Forza Horizon?



                            

o_O.Q on 17 December 2012
ethomaz said:

Chris Hu said:

Even though GT5 has more cars I still think that FM3 has better looking cars and a better variety of cars.  Also all the cars in FM3 have fully detailed interior none of that premium vs standard car bs.  Also a lot of cars in GT5 are total garbage since they can't win any races even if fully upgraded that is not a problem in FM3 since any car can be useful in some form especially since it alows engine swaps.  I also think that the track selection in FM3 is slightly better one of the best tracks from previous GT games the Seattle circuit is totally missing in GT5.  When it comes to track selection GT4 is still the best in the franchise.  I also find it a joke that out of the 1000+ cars in GT5 only 17 can be raced motified they could have done a lot better then that especially since in GT1 and 2 almost all the cars could be race modified.

Forza 3 is a better sim racing than Forza 4... now the biggest issues with Forza for me is how the driving physics is different from real-life and the tracks are widen without real life proportions to make the driving more easly... the brake system in Forza is all wrong too.

About the tracks I'm fine with the selection...

  • Fuji Speedway: Fuji Speedwa F, Fuji Speedway GT
  • Suzuka Circuit: Suzuka Circuit (Weather), Suzuka Circuit East Course
  • Daytona International Speedway: Superspeedway – Daytona, Road Course – Daytona
  • Tsukuba Circuit
  • Circuit de la Sarthe: Circuit de la Sarthe 2009 (Time / Weather), Circuit de la Sarthe 2009 No Chicane, Circuit de la Sarthe 2005, Circuit de la Sarthe 2005 No Chicane
  • Nürburgring: Nürburgring Nordschleife (Time), Nürburgring GP/F, Nürburgring 24h (Time / Weather), Nürburgring GP/D, Nürburgring typeV
  • Indianapolis Motorspeedway: Superspeedway – Indy, Road Course – Indy
  • Autodromo Nazionale Monza: Autodromo Nazionale Monza (Weather), Autodromo Nazionale Monza No Chicane
  • The Top Gear Test Track
  • Laguna Seca Raceway
  • High Speed Ring: High Speed Ring (Weather), High Speed Ring Reverse
  • Cape Ring: Cape Ring, Cape Ring Inside, Cape Ring North, Cape Ring Outside, Cape Ring South
  • Autumn Ring: Autumn Ring, Autumn Ring / Reverse, Autumn Ring Mini, Autumn Ring Mini / Reverse
  • Deep Forest Raceway: Deep Forest Raceway, Deep Forest Raceway / Reverse
  • Grand Valley Speedway: Grand Valley Speedway, Grand Valley Speedway / Reverse, Grand Valley East Section, Grand Valley East Section / Reverse
  • Eiger Nordwand Track: Eiger Nordwand Track Short Track (Weather), Eiger Nordwand Track Short Track / Reverse
  • Trial Mountain Circuit: Trial Mountain Circuit, Trial Mountain Circuit / Reverse
  • London: London, London / Reverse
  • Rome: Rome, Rome / Reverse
  • Circuito de Madrid: Circuito de Madrid, Circuito de Madrid / Reverse, Circuito de Madrid Mini, Circuito de Madrid Mini/ Reverse
  • Tokyo R246: Tokyo R246, Tokyo R246 / Reverse
  • Côte d’Azur
  • Special Stage Route 5: Special Stage Route 5 / Night, Special Stage Route 5 / Reverse / Night, Clubman Stage Route 5 / Night, Clubman Stage Route 5 / Reverse/ Night
  • Special Stage Route 7: Special Stage Route 7 / Night (Weather)
  • Eiger Nordwand Track: Eiger Nordwand Track K Trail, Eiger Nordwand Track K Trail / Reverse, Eiger Nordwand Track G Trail, Eiger Nordwand Track G Trail / Reverse, Eiger Nordwand Track W Trail, Eiger Nordwand Track W Trail / Reverse
  • Toscana: Toscana (Time), Toscana / Reverse (Time)
  • Chamonix: Chamonix Main (Weather), Chamonix East (Weather), Chamonix West (Weather), Chamonix Mini (Weather)
  • SPA-Francorchamps
  • Kart Space: Kart Space I, Kart Space I / Reverse, Kart Space II, Kart Space II /Reverse
  • Special Stage Route X Oval
  • Twin Ring Motegi: Road Course - Twin Ring Motegi, Road Course - Twin Ring Motegi West, Road Course - Twin Ring Motegi East, Super Speedway - Twin Ring Motegi

30 tracks, over 82 layouts

About the race modificantion cars you are right... only 18 have this option.

And GT5 will receive more cars / tracks soon... I expect te Spec 3.0 to be released in 2013 and more DLC is coming too.


you're sure they'll be a spec 3.0?

has it been mentioned by pd at all?

i'd really like to see what they'd add



Chris Hu on 17 December 2012

As far as having a ballanced lineup of cars Forza is miles ahead of GT and starting with FM3 it also has a better variety of cars.  GT5 lineup of cars is pretty dated since about half the cars in the game first appeared in GT2.  Also whats the use of having 1000+ cars if you can just use the Red Bull Racing car to win over half of the races in the game. 



Michael-5 on 17 December 2012
Carl2291 said:
Michael-5 said:

I completly disagree. You can't compare shipped units on one medium, refusing VGC data, and then use VGC data for the other. If you're going to compare GT5 to Forza, you compare it based on sales. Forza 3, 4 and Horizon have shipped many onsold units too.

Also, I was refering to console games only. When people play GT/Forza as simulation racing games at their finest, I don't think they even put GT PSP on the same level. It's portable Gran Turismo, nothing more (well a great game imo).

Fair enough, opinions will vary on that matter all the time.

Going by VGChartz data, the 4 Forza console games have indeed currently outsold the 2 console Gran Turismo games... But, if youre talking the SIM games, is it right to include Forza Horizon?

Is it right to include GT5: Prologue? Forza Horizon still feels like Forza, and although affects like going off road, or sideswiping other cars have no negative effect on the game, has this ever stopped GT5 from being a Sim? Forza Horizon is still Forza, and it's still a sim.



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