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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - German Law to Blame For 18+ Rated Wii U Content Block In Europe

Viper1 said:

Most people have stated the Wii U's online component now put it on par, even somewhat superior, to the other HD consoles.  Read up on it, it may surprise you.

And it's not M rated titles that's the problem but USK 18.  Most ESRB M rated titles are given a USK 16 rating.  Only a few get the 18 rating like ZombiU did.

I fully agree that they need to find a way around the issue but I can't understand how some people are saying the fault itself is with Nintendo when ALL other Germany online entities are subject to the same law.

That's hardly true.

Sexual themes (including nudity), cursing, low violence (next to no blood) = USK 16

Violence (extensive blood) = USK 18

Then there's the limb cutting and rag doll part which is usually enough reason to not give a USK rating.
However this is hugely inconsistent.

Some examples:
ZombiU/Dead Space gets USK18 without any changes
Dead Rising/Dead Island did not get a rating
Resident Evil 2-4 got a USK rating after cutting several elements
Condemned 1&2 did not get a rating and are confiscated !

Therefore Dead Space and ZombiU were extremely lucky IMO.
Proof that Dead Space was lucky: (http://www.schnittberichte.com/news.php?ID=1039 ) USK18 after the third try.



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Barozi said:
weaveworld said:
Barozi said:

What was the deal with violent movies again? You can only enter a rental store when you're 18+ or something?

And that doesn't count for games that are rated?

Just asking...

Not quite, there are 18+ rental stores and family rental stores. Also if you're with a parent I don't think it matters at all. Probably not 100% legal but nearly every shopkeeper will just ignore you.

Source: http://www.jugendschutzaktiv.de/informationen_fuer_gewerbetreibende_und_veranstalter/videotheken/dok/38.php

The exposition of hardcore porn and non-rated games are the only issue here. Not USK/FSK18 content !

Thanks! So all in all it's  just not that big of a deal. Apart from the games that are banned/not rated ofcourse.



Barozi said:

I already made extensive posts on Joystiq about this:

There is no such law in Germany for games or any retail/digital content. If there were such a law it would not be possible to buy Saints Row 3, Halo Reach, God of War 3, GTA IV or any other 18+ game at any German retailer during daytime. But as I said it's not, you can buy all of those, nude mags and melee weapons at any given time.

As I said before, the problem may be the videos in the eShop, not the ability to buy the game. Buying the game will need an age-verification too, but that may be handled different. But for instance Amazon made Post-Ident for me, buying a USK18-game.



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Small question : Does Sony or Microsoft empty their German PSN/XBLive when the sun rises?



Barozi said:
Sommernacht said:


I am not convinced that Nintendo is required by (national or European) law to apply this to all EU countries. I've got the feeling that Nintendo is not bothered by this too much (Nintendo never reall liked adult-only stuff, right?) and chose the simpler version of applying it to all of Europe.

It should be quite easy to restrict this to Germany and/or to create workarounds like other people in this thread have suggested (age verification).

By the way I find it quite ignorant of people in this thread who post generalized, biased comments like "German laws suck" based on this one instance where it might actually just be Nintendos way of interpreting this law.

Exactly.

I see two possible ways. (I remind you that I have no clue about the eShop and that the following are just logical conclusions)

1. Proper age verification
As I've proved it's possible to buy 18+ content at all times anywhere, that must mean that it's in some way possible to buy 18+ content via the eShop without proper verification. (Probably with Nintendo eShop cards ?)

2. Dedicated German eShop
Redirect every German WiiU owner to the German eShop where titles like ZombiU are not available during daytime (or introduce the point above only there). All other European WiiU owners should get to either a European eShop or a UK eShop, Spain eShop etc.
That way there should be absolutely no problems regarding any German law.

I also think a dedicated german eShop should solve this issue for other european countries. It could simply remove the videos for the game at other times than night and would be probably fine, you are allowed to buy the game at any time (with proper age-verification, that could be solved somehow).



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ryuzaki57 said:
Small question : Does Sony or Microsoft empty their German PSN/XBLive when the sun rises?

Do they include gameplay-videos?



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Mnementh said:
ryuzaki57 said:
Small question : Does Sony or Microsoft empty their German PSN/XBLive when the sun rises?

Do they include gameplay-videos?

Doesn't matter. Nintendo blocks all content, even the game's description. If Sony or Microsoft keep their online mature content during the day in Germany, that means it isn't a legal issue and that Nintendo's censors are zealots.



ryuzaki57 said:
Mnementh said:
ryuzaki57 said:
Small question : Does Sony or Microsoft empty their German PSN/XBLive when the sun rises?

Do they include gameplay-videos?

Doesn't matter. Nintendo blocks all content, even the game's description. If Sony or Microsoft keep their online mature content during the day in Germany, that means it isn't a legal issue and that Nintendo's censors are zealots.


I think nobody sued Nintendo, but they asked their lawyers. You are right, the description itself should be no problem. Probably their eShop-Software isn't flexible enough to only block the videos.



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10 years greatest game event!

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SHit like this doesn't happen over night people.

it took Australia oh I don't know about 10 years for the state governments to agree on a R18+ rating for video games. They must all agree or law can't change. Everytime it went to vote, ONE wanker would block it.

Now they finally passed it like start of 2012 (or maybe late 2011), guess what, the law still hasn't been made official. All the paper work takes time (cause that is all governments do). Hopefully it will come into effect 1 July 2013.

As for TV we too have similar rule on free to air now. But i think it is 10pm. Movies that have X amount of swearing in them have to beep out the worlds unless its 10pm lol.



 

 

Viper1 said:
wfz said:
Viper1 said:


I think you may have mised something.

Nintendo of Europe is bound by German law because it is headquartered there so all its operations in an online capacity are restricted to German law.

Other companies are not HQ'd there so the German law only applies to their sales in Germany.


Yeah, I'm still a bit confused. So...

1) Company A: Based in Germany, has to follow German laws for every country.

2) Company B: Based in UK, only has to follow German laws in Germany.

 

I don't understand that. Why do they have to follow German laws for distribution outside Germany? In the first scenario, it seems like the only law that matters is Germany's, since it's upheld then across all of EU. In the second example, only German laws are enforced in Germany, which makes sense.

They have to abide by the laws of all countries but the coutnry you operate from takes all priority.    So while a customer in the UK may buy a game online, they are still buying it from a German store.   That law applies to the store, not the customer.

With the reverse (PSN, for example), a German citizen would be bound by his local laws while the PSN store is bound by the laws of the UK.

S.T.A.G.E. said:
Nintendo will never step over the line, only third parties will. Germany only needs to worry about Sony and Microsoft if that is their problem.

Ninja Gaiden 3 and Bayonetta 2 might want a word with you.

Did you read what I wrote properly? I said Nintendo will never go overboard. Nintendo first party will never go above a teen rating (if they even reach that at all). Its the third party you will have to worry about. Nintendo acquires those games to satisfy the appetite of the older gamers who are looking for something more from them. After the satisfy their teen, 17+ and mature third party talks they go back to their first party games which are primarily for families or everyone. With Sony and Microsoft, this German Law applies in a sweeping manner.