Why so secret? are you the daddy of the children in question?

The kid situation us much like the herpes situation: you get them through sex, once you've got them you've got them forever, and you can now only date other people who have them.

lol. sometimes, u need a fovuced perspective, without all the red tape you'd find in a thread.

Bound to fail.

Likely yes, but that's the way of the world.

If you have the attitude it will fail, it will. A postive outlook in this situation will do wonders.

I didn't see this thread until today, but its good you talked to her again Poke. She may be hesitant with you being around the child right now, but soon, things will return to the way they were, which is good, because it sounded like you enjoyed it :)

Sorry, didn't have time to expand on my thoughts and forgot to go back later. The reason I say this is because of a few different reasons.

1. He admits he needs to "grow up." Thats fantastic! but... it's not something you can really force yourself to do. On top of that he may start despising it since he basically forced himself into maturity and may start blaming her for it.

2. She set restrictions on him with the kids. Uh... restrictions are never a good thing. I don't really feel like I need to expand on that further.

3. She totally lied to him about being a better father. Why do I say this? He started dating her 2 months ago. This incident happened 3 weeks ago. So that leaves a month and a week of relationship time. "After being with her for a while (A while is how long?) I started doing minor stuff." Lets say his "for a while" is 3 weeks. Now, no matter how shitty of a father figure the actual dad is I would not feel comfortable in being able to compare ANYONE to him with just 2 weeks of "data" for lack of a better word. Especially since after 2 weeks of doing minor things he completely bailed. I can't seeing the father being much worse. Not saying the father is better by any means. I'm simply saying she couldn't possibly know that with such limited data especially after the shitty bail out by the OP. Especially taking into consideration that it seems like it's the same guy for both kids... Which means the guy was most likely around for at least the first year of the first childs life at the earliest. Unless the mom and the dad got right back to business immediatly afterward and he left right after insemination

1). When my mates say they need to grow up or be more mature, they're generally the most mature ones and use a few examples of when they do something a little childish as their standard, the way they really act is often quite mature and they can act as excellent role models (but this would vary a lot).

2). Long term restrictions are not, temporary ones I can agree too, of course how long is too long is open to extreme debate (and would again vary per person).

3). Ok you win this point :P

Yeah you win this argument tbh :P

But can we both agree to proceed with caution but have a positive outlook on this relationship? :)

1. Yes, it would vary a lot. Some very mature individuals may make an immature mistake and identify it and say they need to grow up. But in this scenario I get the feeling he never analyzed the situation and the possible outcomes (since obviously kid attachment would most definatly be one). And I don't believe he is really looking for that or ready for that by some of his comments such as "I figure she should call me since I didn't really do anything wrong."

2. Yeah, I was basing this off of my past experience. My relationship failed because my ex started setting restrictions on who I could talk to. At first I told her that it was stupid... apparently she thought I agreed to it though. That caused major issues when she found out I was still talking to the person (My ex of now 11 years and it was only through texts every once in a GREAT while I haven't even seen her like 3 years before me and her started dating so she was mostly out of the picture). Since it caused a huge issue I just started hiding the fact we still talked. Which she found out to. I really started resenting her since there was no reason to ask me to stop talking to a now friend who I never see.

Basically what I'm saying is... I wasn't thinking in temporary terms since I was basing off of personal experience of permanent terms. However, I still don't think "You can't be a part of my kids lives until I give the okay." is a good restriction. However, you made a very good point that I overlooked.

Yes, I agree that if he is determined to still date this girl to proceed with caution. And yes have a positive outlook.

You're completely right, but this is just the way it is you know for young people. Single mothers in their late teens to mid 20s can often say things like that, I've seen enough of them and that's not to be critical of them. It's normal behaviour to find someone and jump the gun - it was very much like the things my girlfriend who had a kid said to me, sure being 28 now it's a bit of a strange thing to say but it's just a sign of normal immaturity that you don't reach for a few years.

Having said that, I've met a few women who have kids who wouldn't talk in that way and are only in their teens. The thing is that it depends how scarred the woman is from that previous "dad". There's a lot of skumbag males around and a lot of scarred women because of them.

So yes you are right, most likely, and most likely long term it isn't a good start and yes most likely it will end in tears. But then most relationships do. Nothing is perfect in an imperfect world and you just have to get on with it and try and make the best decisions. One things for sure, all parties will learn something from it, that's not to say that the kids should be guinea pigs - far from it. But it's an inevitable course of life once a mother is single in some respects, for many mothers.

Things take time and eventually the "right" thing will happen. Kids won't be scarred, but hopefully they will learn something from it.

This is all very vague I know, but there's truth in this. I did what the OP talks about doing for a few years and you live and leanr during that time.