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Forums - General - How something can come from nothing

Nem said:

Ding dong.

Correct. The laws of the universe only come into place when you have particles that interact with each other. They are not infinite. They depend on each particle and the effect that particle has in the others. Be it an atom or dark matter.

Something coming from nothing is hard to believe cause we think orderly, but in fact the universe is a place of chaos. The interaction between the particles is what makes it look orderly, in a certain way.


Nothing can't be chaotic that's a contradiction in terms and what your describing is quantum vacuum which is in fact caused from the Big Bang singularity and actual had point of birth in existence.



"Excuse me sir, I see you have a weapon. Why don't you put it down and let's settle this like gentlemen"  ~ max

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Look into the teachings of Stephen Hawking, among others. There are subatomic particles that have been studied and proven to appear out of nowhere and disappear in seemingly random form. So considering that this is something that happens at every moment within everything, it's a pretty safe bet that the universe could spontaneously form from nothing. Belief systems need not apply, the truth is readily available should you choose to accept it.



Jay520 said:
Player1x3 said:


You know to whom logic and laws of our universe dont apply to? God. It is really the most logical explanation.

''But before the universe, who is to say that those laws and that logic applied?''

Nothing, but to create OUR UNIVERSE as it is now, you would need to use (or a create) the laws that apply to OUR UNIVERSE. We can thus assume, that universe was created using the laws which it contains today. You cant use any laws to create something which later creates its own different laws and rules


True. but why must that God be conscious, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnibeloved, and how do you know there aren't more Gods. I can understand a belief in a creator, but where do these other  traits come from?

As for the second part: Who's to say? It seems like you're just making assumptions here. Just because laws have been constant for your life doesn't mean they weren't at some other time. 

I didnt mention those traits lol. I was just talking about God in a simplefied way, i.e a higher power. Omni potence, science and benevolence were irrelevant (altho i do beleive God is atleast some of those characteristics)

Well, isn't this whole topic just a giant assumption? And you didnt really bring up a counter argument there



Why cannot the Multiverse have always been? Why must there be creation?

To whoever mentioned "soul" as fact, leave this thread immediately as you are unqualified to utilize logic.

To whoever mentioned that a creator is logical, see above instructions. We exist because the conditions allow us to exist. Not the other way around. It's really quite simple.



http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZiXC8Yh4T0 

This video beautifully explains how something (even the Universe, can came from nothing) :)



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I say instead of thinking what had happened, we should think of what should we make happen, and that means more research and experimentation.



Cool OP, Jay. Really thought provoking.



To answer another's question: conciousness comes from activiy in one of your frontal lobes in your brain.  When it's active, you are awake and aware, when not, you are asleep, in a coma, or worse.

We all have faith of some form. Faith that we are alive.  That everything we experience is real, even imaginary things, because they are real in our mind.  But that doesn't mean we have to believe in a God, God, a creator, Soul or ghost.  When people ask about athiest I like the questions, "Do you belive in Zeus, the Greek Gods, Norse Gods, the Egyptian Gods, Native Amercan Spirits, etc.?  When they say, no those, are silly!  Then the response is, "It is like that, with one more."

The nothing and zero concept you are pondering about is quite abstract and complex.  I think that is why Zero is actually a concept I personally don't completly grasp yet.  It was beyond most accient civilizations, even quite advanced ones.  It came from the Myan culture, and one of the most advanced concepts in the world I think.

The questions you are asking is beyond wither a God or Gods exist or not.  Because if there is a God what created it? 

For the nothing, current theories about the Big Bang is that is also created time, so for this nothing, what happened before their was time?  And since something exist, even for a moment in time, then it always exist at that point in time.  So if we could go back in time we would see thing, even that died or were destoryed, still exist.  So does that make everything we precieve eternal? 

Unless time is destoryed. That would be a nothing beyond which anyone, well at least that I know of, can exist.  If time can be destoryed, is everything temporary?

So what came before time?

 



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

It's sad how atheists try to rationalize the concept that something came out of nothing.

"a sea of random spontaneous energy"

"the laws didn't exist before matter so we can ignore these laws"

"There are infinite possibilites that could have created these laws"

"There's a balance between matter and anti-matter so a universe could pop up anywhere anytime"

"there could be an infinite amount of universes which makes it plausible for our particular universe to come into being"



VXIII said:
Nem said:
VXIII said:
Nothingness means no possibilities .


Read Soleron's first post. You will understand that the problem is your definition of "nothingness".


At least we both agree that this definition is not faulty :). Actually, I'd argue that Soleron's definition is, but that isn't what I'm here for.


Ah, you noticed my edit. I didnt mean to say its not faulty in my opinion, but i didnt want to be confrontational. Fact is, we dont really know what "nothing" is in the context of the beggining of the universe.