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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft Kinect: Why it failed to do what it was supposed to do even though it was successful

Mummelmann on 29 October 2012

Very, very few people believed that Kinect would do anything to improve conventional gaming and that it would largely fall into the casual shovelware and/or obscure game tack-on category. In my personal opinion, Kinect makes the entire 360 look like a more silly product and adds nothing to the mix that we need.
Even the most staunch defenders of Kinect can't deny that it failed to make an impact on core gaming and is practically irrelevant for the vast majority of developers today.

Same goes for PS Move, just to clear that up.



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sales2099 on 29 October 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


No Microsoft didnt expand anything, Nintendo did that and Microsoft rode on its wave (Remember when Nintendo went casual and Sony and Microsoft expressed pessimism earlier and then Microsoft jumped on the bandwagon? Sony was always on it but their marketing sucked then and it still sucks now). Sony had expanded the Playstation product to casuals two gens before the both of them increasing game use and upgrading the multimedia value. The PS2 and PS1 have still on the one and two spot for highest selling consoles of all time. Literally the only two products that had something for everyone. I don't want to bring games back to the old days, but I also do not want proper games to take a back seat because a company doesn't give two shits about them. Microsoft is investing in games because they have to, but everyone knows they came to the industry because they want to own the living room (and saw Sony gobbling up multimedia marketshare, which is why they went after Apple as well and failed), not just for gaming, but for everything. Sony wants multimedia, but they do NOT want it to trump its truer purpose. 

Microsoft has created many studios, but either they haven't come up with much, are working on Halo and Forza or are focusing on next gen. Sonys teams have been focused on games this gen and beyond. Lets keep this concrete on facts, thats how it IS if you've been paying attention. How many games did Microsoft put out last year that wasnt low budget and for the core? How about this year? How about next year? Exactly, there is no argument about that. Microsoft even admitted that making games is risky and made excuses for low game production when journalists pressed them as to why their production level is so low.

Kinect is a mass market product, but unless they follow Sony and come up with a peripheral device for it (Which I believe they will), it wont push anything pertaining to gaming like the PROMISED AND CAMPAIGNED FOR. Their selling point to be taken seriously was to make real games for the Kinect, unless they go on Sonys path and show Sony how to properly market, this is not happening.

But Nintendo grabbed casuals at the expense of core. MS retained the core and successfully expanded into casuals. Big difference. The underline is very interesting. MS and Sony both invest in gaming, but you think Sony does it with love and MS feels obligated. Drop your misguided sense of Sony as a humanitarian, its getting old.

PS3 Game Sales 2012 (3 week old data). All games have at least a 70 on metacritic.

MLB 12: 0.77
J&D Collection: 0.25
R&C Collection: 0.05
Twisted Metal: 0.54
Starhawk: 0.17
Sorcery: 0.11
Tales of graces: 0.29 (2012 NA/Euro)
House of The Dead 4: 0.05
Tokyo Jungle: 0.22

Halo 4 should be able to outdo that stuff within a few days or less. This data nullifies any point your trying to make in your second paragraph. There is no point spending time and money making games that are sent out to die. MS taking the XBLA approach for high quality at low risk and few but BIG exclusives is a good thing given their current lack of developers. Next gen will have more retail so its win win.

Anybody who believed MS PR about kinect being for the core need professional help and are extremely gullible. That is PR. Kinect was designed to push 360 as a casual games machine and media hub. It succeeded on both accounts. Simple as that.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

oniyide on 29 October 2012

@sales2099

"Anybody who believed MS PR about kinect being for the core need professional help and are extremely gullible. That is PR"

Man you are so full of crap its almost funny. YOU were the one saying that this or that game would shut reviewers up and that Kinect could do core games. Now you wanna backtrack?? LOL. Oh man, you do make some valid points though



S.T.A.G.E. on 29 October 2012
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


No Microsoft didnt expand anything, Nintendo did that and Microsoft rode on its wave (Remember when Nintendo went casual and Sony and Microsoft expressed pessimism earlier and then Microsoft jumped on the bandwagon? Sony was always on it but their marketing sucked then and it still sucks now). Sony had expanded the Playstation product to casuals two gens before the both of them increasing game use and upgrading the multimedia value. The PS2 and PS1 have still on the one and two spot for highest selling consoles of all time. Literally the only two products that had something for everyone. I don't want to bring games back to the old days, but I also do not want proper games to take a back seat because a company doesn't give two shits about them. Microsoft is investing in games because they have to, but everyone knows they came to the industry because they want to own the living room (and saw Sony gobbling up multimedia marketshare, which is why they went after Apple as well and failed), not just for gaming, but for everything. Sony wants multimedia, but they do NOT want it to trump its truer purpose. 

Microsoft has created many studios, but either they haven't come up with much, are working on Halo and Forza or are focusing on next gen. Sonys teams have been focused on games this gen and beyond. Lets keep this concrete on facts, thats how it IS if you've been paying attention. How many games did Microsoft put out last year that wasnt low budget and for the core? How about this year? How about next year? Exactly, there is no argument about that. Microsoft even admitted that making games is risky and made excuses for low game production when journalists pressed them as to why their production level is so low.

Kinect is a mass market product, but unless they follow Sony and come up with a peripheral device for it (Which I believe they will), it wont push anything pertaining to gaming like the PROMISED AND CAMPAIGNED FOR. Their selling point to be taken seriously was to make real games for the Kinect, unless they go on Sonys path and show Sony how to properly market, this is not happening.

But Nintendo grabbed casuals at the expense of core. MS retained the core and successfully expanded into casuals. Big difference. The underline is very interesting. MS and Sony both invest in gaming, but you think Sony does it with love and MS feels obligated. Drop your misguided sense of Sony as a humanitarian, its getting old.

PS3 Game Sales 2012 (3 week old data). All games have at least a 70 on metacritic.

MLB 12: 0.77
J&D Collection: 0.25
R&C Collection: 0.05
Twisted Metal: 0.54
Starhawk: 0.17
Sorcery: 0.11
Tales of graces: 0.29 (2012 NA/Euro)
House of The Dead 4: 0.05
Tokyo Jungle: 0.22

Halo 4 should be able to outdo that stuff within a few days or less. This data nullifies any point your trying to make in your second paragraph. There is no point spending time and money making games that are sent out to die. MS taking the XBLA approach for high quality at low risk and few but BIG exclusives is a good thing given their current lack of developers. Next gen will have more retail so its win win.

Anybody who believed MS PR about kinect being for the core need professional help and are extremely gullible. That is PR. Kinect was designed to push 360 as a casual games machine and media hub. It succeeded on both accounts. Simple as that.


This data nullifies nothing. It just means the games didn't sell well and had horrible marketing, now, does it mean they werent popular? Yes (and many things factor into that). Were the games bad? Thats up to the person who played it.It's a mixed bag, but I haven't stayed from my point that Microsofts prime focus in on a few titles that they can heavily market and concentrate energy in extracting as much sales as possible. Again, Sony just makes games. You're not proving me wrong in any sense, you're just boasting about things I already know. Microsoft has superior marketing, plain and simple. This is a marketing issue. Sony even admitted that they are releasing too many games and not screening as many as they could so they could market adequately for them. They said they will be cutting back on development a bit and focusing on the marketing, but I highly doubt they will stoop to internally making as little as Microsoft does.

I'll say it again, the KINECT FOR THE CORE campaign was a failure. They might be able to pick it up next gen. The Kinects scrolling features are great, people have probably been doing that outside of the gaming industry. Microsoft has trying to get gamers like US to take the Kinect seriously, and they have failed with every attempt. I have never denied that the Kinect was a commercial success, its a marketing success and brought in tons of money but on in terms of concrete value, it's nothing but a Dance Central screen scroller.



sales2099 on 29 October 2012
oniyide said:
@sales2099

"Anybody who believed MS PR about kinect being for the core need professional help and are extremely gullible. That is PR"

Man you are so full of crap its almost funny. YOU were the one saying that this or that game would shut reviewers up and that Kinect could do core games. Now you wanna backtrack?? LOL. Oh man, you do make some valid points though

Kinect having one or two core titles doesnt change that the mass majority are meant for casuals. Point stands.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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sales2099 on 29 October 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


No Microsoft didnt expand anything, Nintendo did that and Microsoft rode on its wave (Remember when Nintendo went casual and Sony and Microsoft expressed pessimism earlier and then Microsoft jumped on the bandwagon? Sony was always on it but their marketing sucked then and it still sucks now). Sony had expanded the Playstation product to casuals two gens before the both of them increasing game use and upgrading the multimedia value. The PS2 and PS1 have still on the one and two spot for highest selling consoles of all time. Literally the only two products that had something for everyone. I don't want to bring games back to the old days, but I also do not want proper games to take a back seat because a company doesn't give two shits about them. Microsoft is investing in games because they have to, but everyone knows they came to the industry because they want to own the living room (and saw Sony gobbling up multimedia marketshare, which is why they went after Apple as well and failed), not just for gaming, but for everything. Sony wants multimedia, but they do NOT want it to trump its truer purpose. 

Microsoft has created many studios, but either they haven't come up with much, are working on Halo and Forza or are focusing on next gen. Sonys teams have been focused on games this gen and beyond. Lets keep this concrete on facts, thats how it IS if you've been paying attention. How many games did Microsoft put out last year that wasnt low budget and for the core? How about this year? How about next year? Exactly, there is no argument about that. Microsoft even admitted that making games is risky and made excuses for low game production when journalists pressed them as to why their production level is so low.

Kinect is a mass market product, but unless they follow Sony and come up with a peripheral device for it (Which I believe they will), it wont push anything pertaining to gaming like the PROMISED AND CAMPAIGNED FOR. Their selling point to be taken seriously was to make real games for the Kinect, unless they go on Sonys path and show Sony how to properly market, this is not happening.

But Nintendo grabbed casuals at the expense of core. MS retained the core and successfully expanded into casuals. Big difference. The underline is very interesting. MS and Sony both invest in gaming, but you think Sony does it with love and MS feels obligated. Drop your misguided sense of Sony as a humanitarian, its getting old.

PS3 Game Sales 2012 (3 week old data). All games have at least a 70 on metacritic.

MLB 12: 0.77
J&D Collection: 0.25
R&C Collection: 0.05
Twisted Metal: 0.54
Starhawk: 0.17
Sorcery: 0.11
Tales of graces: 0.29 (2012 NA/Euro)
House of The Dead 4: 0.05
Tokyo Jungle: 0.22

Halo 4 should be able to outdo that stuff within a few days or less. This data nullifies any point your trying to make in your second paragraph. There is no point spending time and money making games that are sent out to die. MS taking the XBLA approach for high quality at low risk and few but BIG exclusives is a good thing given their current lack of developers. Next gen will have more retail so its win win.

Anybody who believed MS PR about kinect being for the core need professional help and are extremely gullible. That is PR. Kinect was designed to push 360 as a casual games machine and media hub. It succeeded on both accounts. Simple as that.


This data nullifies nothing. It just means the games didn't sell well and had horrible marketing, now, does it mean they werent popular? Yes (and many things factor into that). Were the games bad? Thats up to the person who played it.It's a mixed bag, but I haven't stayed from my point that Microsofts prime focus in on a few titles that they can heavily market and concentrate energy in extracting as much sales as possible. Again, Sony just makes games. You're not proving me wrong in any sense, you're just boasting about things I already know. Microsoft has superior marketing, plain and simple. This is a marketing issue. Sony even admitted that they are releasing too many games and not screening as many as they could so they could market adequately for them. They said they will be cutting back on development a bit and focusing on the marketing, but I highly doubt they will stoop to internally making as little as Microsoft does.

I'll say it again, the KINECT FOR THE CORE campaign was a failure. They might be able to pick it up next gen. The Kinects scrolling features are great, people have probably been doing that outside of the gaming industry. Microsoft has trying to get gamers like US to take the Kinect seriously, and they have failed with every attempt. I have never denied that the Kinect was a commercial success, its a marketing success and brought in tons of money but on in terms of concrete value, it's nothing but a Dance Central screen scroller.

Your marketing excuse can only go so far. Your implying that MS is only successful not based on their content but their marketing $$$ and thats just flat out wrong and ignorant.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

VGKing on 29 October 2012

Kinect did no better than the Wii. It's full of shovelware.
There are no core Kinect-only games that I know of, if there are, they sold poorly since Kinect is marketed towards kids and families.



Slimebeast on 29 October 2012

Money-wise I would guess it broke even at best. Kinect attracted many casuals but it probably alienated just as many hardcore gamers.

I believe Kinect's true legacy will be that it embarrassed gaming rather than supplemented it.



oniyide on 29 October 2012
sales2099 said:
oniyide said:
@sales2099

"Anybody who believed MS PR about kinect being for the core need professional help and are extremely gullible. That is PR"

Man you are so full of crap its almost funny. YOU were the one saying that this or that game would shut reviewers up and that Kinect could do core games. Now you wanna backtrack?? LOL. Oh man, you do make some valid points though

Kinect having one or two core titles doesnt change that the mass majority are meant for casuals. Point stands.

Thats not what you were saying when it first came out, my point still stands. if you wanna sit here and act like you weren't buying into the whole "Kinect for core" hype, when it originally came out then thats on you. 



S.T.A.G.E. on 29 October 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blkV4KH8zxo&feature=relatedsales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


No Microsoft didnt expand anything, Nintendo did that and Microsoft rode on its wave (Remember when Nintendo went casual and Sony and Microsoft expressed pessimism earlier and then Microsoft jumped on the bandwagon? Sony was always on it but their marketing sucked then and it still sucks now). Sony had expanded the Playstation product to casuals two gens before the both of them increasing game use and upgrading the multimedia value. The PS2 and PS1 have still on the one and two spot for highest selling consoles of all time. Literally the only two products that had something for everyone. I don't want to bring games back to the old days, but I also do not want proper games to take a back seat because a company doesn't give two shits about them. Microsoft is investing in games because they have to, but everyone knows they came to the industry because they want to own the living room (and saw Sony gobbling up multimedia marketshare, which is why they went after Apple as well and failed), not just for gaming, but for everything. Sony wants multimedia, but they do NOT want it to trump its truer purpose. 

Microsoft has created many studios, but either they haven't come up with much, are working on Halo and Forza or are focusing on next gen. Sonys teams have been focused on games this gen and beyond. Lets keep this concrete on facts, thats how it IS if you've been paying attention. How many games did Microsoft put out last year that wasnt low budget and for the core? How about this year? How about next year? Exactly, there is no argument about that. Microsoft even admitted that making games is risky and made excuses for low game production when journalists pressed them as to why their production level is so low.

Kinect is a mass market product, but unless they follow Sony and come up with a peripheral device for it (Which I believe they will), it wont push anything pertaining to gaming like the PROMISED AND CAMPAIGNED FOR. Their selling point to be taken seriously was to make real games for the Kinect, unless they go on Sonys path and show Sony how to properly market, this is not happening.

But Nintendo grabbed casuals at the expense of core. MS retained the core and successfully expanded into casuals. Big difference. The underline is very interesting. MS and Sony both invest in gaming, but you think Sony does it with love and MS feels obligated. Drop your misguided sense of Sony as a humanitarian, its getting old.

PS3 Game Sales 2012 (3 week old data). All games have at least a 70 on metacritic.

MLB 12: 0.77
J&D Collection: 0.25
R&C Collection: 0.05
Twisted Metal: 0.54
Starhawk: 0.17
Sorcery: 0.11
Tales of graces: 0.29 (2012 NA/Euro)
House of The Dead 4: 0.05
Tokyo Jungle: 0.22

Halo 4 should be able to outdo that stuff within a few days or less. This data nullifies any point your trying to make in your second paragraph. There is no point spending time and money making games that are sent out to die. MS taking the XBLA approach for high quality at low risk and few but BIG exclusives is a good thing given their current lack of developers. Next gen will have more retail so its win win.

Anybody who believed MS PR about kinect being for the core need professional help and are extremely gullible. That is PR. Kinect was designed to push 360 as a casual games machine and media hub. It succeeded on both accounts. Simple as that.


This data nullifies nothing. It just means the games didn't sell well and had horrible marketing, now, does it mean they werent popular? Yes (and many things factor into that). Were the games bad? Thats up to the person who played it.It's a mixed bag, but I haven't stayed from my point that Microsofts prime focus in on a few titles that they can heavily market and concentrate energy in extracting as much sales as possible. Again, Sony just makes games. You're not proving me wrong in any sense, you're just boasting about things I already know. Microsoft has superior marketing, plain and simple. This is a marketing issue. Sony even admitted that they are releasing too many games and not screening as many as they could so they could market adequately for them. They said they will be cutting back on development a bit and focusing on the marketing, but I highly doubt they will stoop to internally making as little as Microsoft does.

I'll say it again, the KINECT FOR THE CORE campaign was a failure. They might be able to pick it up next gen. The Kinects scrolling features are great, people have probably been doing that outside of the gaming industry. Microsoft has trying to get gamers like US to take the Kinect seriously, and they have failed with every attempt. I have never denied that the Kinect was a commercial success, its a marketing success and brought in tons of money but on in terms of concrete value, it's nothing but a Dance Central screen scroller.

Your marketing excuse can only go so far. Your implying that MS is only successful not based on their content but their marketing $$$ and thats just flat out wrong and ignorant.

Yes, I am so ignorant. Here's not even a quarter of my evidence, Microsoft was in the middle of time square shutting it down like they always do(Just like they did for the XBox and the Xbox 360)! Do you know how many celebrities, corporations, media hubs and talk shows they put in their budget to launch the Kinect? Good lord are you ignorant! Kinect was a market success!

Microsoft Shuts down Time Square

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blkV4KH8zxo&feature=related

Kinect on Ellen (hard advertising for the female population)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWzgZfDUGWQ

Kinect on Good Morning America

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k0erIdq1_c

NAME HOW MANY TIMES SONY DID ANY OF THAT! This is just an extremely small portion of the damn live advertising. Very, very small! In 2010 the media was saturated with Kinect related ads, product placement, shows and more. It was on every prime time channel, at almost every macys that mattered in the country for test trial and had groups of people there. Do you know the percentage of people who watch those shows? The word hype exists for a reason, you dont need proof to profit off of hype. Any political election can prove this to you.