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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft Kinect: Why it failed to do what it was supposed to do even though it was successful

sales2099 on 24 October 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
The Kinect was a media darling but a concrete failure on pushing gaming. To anyone who denies the Kinect cut into the casual attention span they did, how much is truly the question. Microsoft had everybody in the American media under their thumb in 2010. 2011 the Wii's sales dropped drastically, especially in America. Its obvioius their focus changed because Americas purchasing habits on a casual end are media driven. Microsoft has shown the world that top notch marketing trumps being able to back up your cause.

It pushed gaming.....in the casual space. That may not benefit people like us, but hey when you get popular you expand into different audiences.

I get the feeling your trying to say how marketing has saved the Xbox brand, or at least kinect from being ignored by the public. Marketing can only do so much, the products have to deliever to keep those sales trends going long term. And they have, for both 360 and Kinect.



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phenom08 on 24 October 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
The Kinect was a media darling but a concrete failure on pushing gaming. To anyone who denies the Kinect cut into the casual attention span they did, how much is truly the question. Microsoft had everybody in the American media under their thumb in 2010. 2011 the Wii's sales dropped drastically, especially in America. Its obvioius their focus changed because Americas purchasing habits on a casual end are media driven. Microsoft has shown the world that top notch marketing trumps being able to back up your cause.

You mean after the Wii received no more major games? The Wii was already falling before Kinect and if Im not mistaken the 360 was already catching the Wii in the states that year, Kinect just solidified it. In other words, Kinect came when the Wii was already falling, what makes matters worse for you is how you can claim Kinect killed the Wii and yet Kinect has continued to fail at taking the Wii's software sales lol. In other words you have no proof. If Kinect was killing the Wii and people are shifting from Wii to kinect then why do "casual" games continue to sell better on the Wii?



torok on 24 October 2012

Actually, both Kinect and Move killed the Wii. Before these alternatives, if you wanted motion controls, you had to buy a Wii. Is all three consoles have motion controllers, you can choose wich one you wan't using other qualities and Wii's dated graphics and lack of third part support are big disavantages.

Kinect played the big role. It made X360 the console of choice for motion controller addicts. Even with all problems, Kinect surpasses Wiimote and Move easily, it's a giant innovation.

For me, what killed the Wii: bad graphics, motion controller in concurrent consoles, lack of third part support (not getting versions of big games or simply receiving bad ports).



Bet with jetforcejiminy: PS4 will pass the Wii lifetime numbers.

phenom08 on 24 October 2012
d21lewis said:
phenom08 said:
 

-Yes.  I am aware that Wii Fit is a game.  My bad.

1) Well this was enough to let me know not to take you very serious lol. If you don't even know the difference between the game and the Balance Board.

-Well, the Balance Board came out in 2008 and has been on the market twice as long as Kinect.  In that amount of time, Kinect has reached about 2/3 of what the Wii Balance Board has.

2) Kinect is also available for PCs, it has plenty of households to sell to. Still hasn't made it though. Sad really.

-Wii Fit =/= Wii Fit U.  We'll see if it makes a dent in Balance Board sales.  I'm willing to bet that ship has sailed.  And (as I stated) Kinect will do big numbers again this holiday season.  Wii Fit (and Balance Board) sales will be flat.

3) Kinect will do ok this holiday season, the 360 has peaked so it probably won't do any better than it did last year. Wii Fit U has two jobs, one is to sell some more balance boards to people that didn't buy the first two Wii Fit games and the other job is to sell software to the existing balance board owners. Don't care for your speculation of Wii Fit just pointing out the failure of saying its dead lol.

-So NOW you want to acknowledge that Wii Fit/Balance Board have been out for 4 years?  Wii Fit is still $99 but many felt that, at $150, Kinect was overpriced.  At $99, Kinect still nets Microsoft a tidy profit.  Plus, with Kinect selling so much at 1 1/2 times the price of a Wii Balance Board w/ Wii Fit, does that constitute a failure?  And you show your bias by calling a device that has sold 20 Million (average) a failure.  You have some seriously high standards.  Lol

4) Excuses lol, kinect will probably need another price cut this holiday as well or atleast next holiday, when its replaced by kinect 2.0 and the Balance Board sells more games. Kinect selling at the same price as Wii Fit constitutes a failure because it can do way more lol. Ninty sold a "scale" better than MS could sell a motion sensing camera. Its made to have software support and its games sell like crap. Have any of the sequel's to its games sold better than the originals?

-Just can't say anything good about Kinect, huh?  Games like Kinect Sports 1 and 2, Dance Central 1 and 2, Just Dance 3, Your Shape Fitness Evolved, Zumba Fitness, Kinectimals, and Kinect Star Wars have very respectable sales.  Wii FIt didn't flop anywhere because the Wii didn't flop anywhere.  Kinect failed in Japan because the Xbox 360 failed in Japan.  How would the peripheral succeed when the device it enhances has failed?

5) Kinda hard to find something good to say about it. Bad software sells and high hardware sells thanks to price cuts is hardly any thing to brag about. Espically when you are still losing lol. The fact that you used "respectable sales" is more than enough proof to say its a failure lol. The Wii Fit series doesn't have "repectable sales", it has incredible sales, something Kinect should have. This is how I know Kinect would have been better off on Wii if it could be done. Ninty would properly support it. Those games have done horrible by the way.

-Why the fuck would I want to do that?  Are you even listening to yourself!?  The Wii Remote is the standard device that comes packed with every single Wii console since launch.  Kinect is a peripheral that came out five years after the Xbox 360!  Now, if you want to compare it to the Wii Motion Plus, I'm all for that.  That IS an add on peripheral.

6) The fact is Kinect is more comparable to the Wii remote. Its a device that can function as a primary controller. Kinect can control the 360 just the Wii remote controls the Wii. It has had many hardware bundles so stop acting like if someone wanted Kinect they couldn't buy it lol. Plenty of hardware bundles, while I'm still waiting on the Wii Fit bundle. Wii Fit was only bundled in Europe for a limited period, while Kinect has had bundles from the beginning. The Balance Board and Motion Plus sensor are both attachments if anything. Neither can control the Wii and both enhance the Wii remote in ways the Wii remote needed for the games they were meant for. They are like the zapper for  duck hunt or the dance mat for dance dance revolution. They were made to make the software (Wii Fit, Wii Sports Resort) possible. They are attachments that became insanely popular. While Kinect is MS's answer to the Wii remote. It even has similar games to it (kinect sports, dance central). I can't think of many sports or dance games that support the Balance Board.

P.S. The motion plus sensor has also sold more than Kinect, its inside the Wii remote now. Making it even more proof its an attachment.

-It is sad.  On the market for twice as long, has a 10 Million lead, and yet hardly supported.  Like you said, it was designed to work with ONE GAME (though it does work with a few more).  Bigger impact on the industry your ass!

7) What's sad is how it's still ahead of a device that's trying its best to be like the Wii Remote.

-Did I miss a joke?  You laughing at me?  Read something hilarious on Twitter?

8) No you said Balance Board 2.0 lol, more proof of you not knowing what you are talking about.

-Yep.  There were no fitness games before Wii Fit (I must have imagined owning a Nintendo Power Pad for the Nes when I was a kid.)  Meanwhile, Kinect only has devs porting Wii games.  Yet, the entire Xbox 360 dashboard has been redesigned to accomodate Kinect and play to its strengths.  It has done so well that it is rumored to be the focus of the Next Xbox console.  You can type LOL but from where I'm sitting, that sounds like nervous laughter.

9) Thanks for this, the Nintendo Power Pad failed compared to the Balance Board lol. Just like there were motion controllers before the Wii remote, it pushed developers to make fitness games in droves when Wii Fit took off like a rocket. While Kinect has spanned only Wii ports and could only push the 360 to a distant second place. Your own statement further proofs Kinect is more comparable to the Wii remote. They both function on their own, while the balance board still needs a Wii remote to be connected when attempting to play Wii Fit( the game it was made for). I'm not even alittle worried lol, the original Kinect sold software like crap so I expect the same out of Kinect 2.0

It means that the Wii launched in 2006 and it took about a year for the AAA calibur Wii games to hit the market.  Wii Fit was a success.  It had an impact on sales but you paint the picture to make it seem like it was the driving force behind Wii sales that year.  The Wii itself was a phenomenon.  Not only did people want the system, people wanted the peripheral.  People wanted the games.  The Wii did so well because that was the year that everything fell into place.  The biggest games were finally coming out.  Wii Fit was just part of that perfect storm--not the cause of it.  Meanwhile, Kinect bundles  were 1/2 of Xbox 360 sales for Holiday 2010 and 2/3 for the beginning of 2011.  Even Christmas of last year, Kinect continued to boost sales.  It will still do well this Christmas.  That is what I call impact.  It was a game changer.

10) More excuses I see, I could say the same about Kinect lol. Halo Reach and the redesign didn't exactly do nothing lol. Yet you failed to mention both. Wow talk about spinning. That was the 360's top year, everything fell into place lol. 

In sales, yes.  But then, it has been around longer.  But, if you look at the original post, I said "When it comes to peripherals, Kinect sits at the top of the mountain when it comes to support, sales, and impact." Wii Fit (and the Balance Board) have the sales.  When i comes to all three, Kinect has the total package.  It has great sales (sold faster than the Balance Board and it's still selling), it has more support from first AND third party, and it has made a bigger impact on the industry.

11) I'm not going to even waste my time with this post lol, to be at the top you have to sell the most so try again.





oniyide on 24 October 2012
phenom08 said:
oniyide said:
spurgeonryan said:
oniyide said:
spurgeonryan said:
oniyide said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

So... Kinect's goal was to slow down the Wii's sales, but it failed to accomplish this goal since Nintendo killed the Wii before Kinect had the chance to kill it?


I thought it was just me. I dont think Kinect was ever going to slow down the Wii or Im sure that was never MS attention. They probably wanted to get some of that dance demograph and they did get them. In terms of games, if anyone thought that it was going to work well with anything but dancing and mingame comps was getting too high

Same can be said for the Wiimote. Who would have known that it would help the Wii sell close to 100 million units.


no it cant, there was no competition for the Wiimote in regards to what it was doing and bringing to the table. Sure there was eyetoy for PS2 but that was in the last gen, Sony had already trounced the other two, so they didnt really push it (didnt need too). Kinect (and Move) were kind of late to the party. 


No. @bold

The Kinect was never going to be able to be on the same level as the Wii motion control It did not have the games. As oniyide said it had a few popular dance games and that is it. But it is obvious that Microsoft wanted more for this little device. Call it the Furby of the gaming world. Everyone had to have it and it made them boatloads of money, but that was it.

You honestly thinkg that Microsoft did not think this was going to be a big rival for the Wii mote? Don't kid yourself. You think they just did it to get some of the dance demographic? What about the Move?

No, these guys put this out because they were jealous of what Nintendo had done. HD was not enough to get gamers attention and the Wii was running away with this Gen when they released their seperate devices. Nintendo handled the Move easily by releasing the motion plus.


what else was it supposed to do but make money? Cause if you are right and MS wanted it to do more, then they are crazy IMHO. As for Move, Sony isnt that crazy they knew they werent going to beat Ninty or MS, which is why they didnt really push it. Considering that they have been making the camera(which is probably the most expensive part of Move) for years they must have figured why not, its not like any of the parts are expensive to make, they make money on every piece of Move equipment sold, its not always about beating the other guy. Matter of fact I love the way Sony handled Move, they treated motion like a secondary thing, an option, which IMHO is what is should have been all along. Oh sure its not sexy, or grand, but considering the limited use for Kinect and the horrendous support for motion+ I think Move got them both beat not in sales but pure content.

Speaking of Motion+ you gotta be kidding, motion+ didnt kill Move, Move woudl have sold the same, hell Wii would have sold the same. The only game in the motion+ library that actually did well was Sports Resort and im pretty sure taht it would have sold as well with motion+. Grand Slam didnt do gangbusters, Red Steel 2 kinda flopped. It sure as hell didnt do anything for Zelda

Kinect was suppose to make the 360 the new Wii according to alot of those predictions. The funny part is how inconsistent it was. Hit in the U.S., mediocre in Europe and a flop in Japan. Kinect would have been better off released on the Wii if it was possible. Same excuse every time for Sony, Sony didn't push it lol. They pushed it whether you believe it or not. They made the games and they flopped. So please stop the excuses. Also I guess you meant Sports Resort would have sold the same? Well wrong, motion+ was needed to make Resort possible. Like he said motion+ killed move. Who am I kidding Sony killed Move.

you live in your own world as usual, SOny didnt put anywhere near the ads that mS did for Kinect thats not pushing, by that logic. When all those games flop we should just stop blaming companies as not pushing them and sending them out to die. Since that seems to be a popular excuse when a game someone like doenst do well. SOny already stated they made profit off of every Move equipment sold. so fail on your part. No Resort could have been made without it, it just would have sucked cause there would have been crappy accuracy. 



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phenom08 on 24 October 2012
oniyide said:
 

you live in your own world as usual, SOny didnt put anywhere near the ads that mS did for Kinect thats not pushing, by that logic. When all those games flop we should just stop blaming companies as not pushing them and sending them out to die. Since that seems to be a popular excuse when a game someone like doenst do well. SOny already stated they made profit off of every Move equipment sold. so fail on your part. No Resort could have been made without it, it just would have sucked cause there would have been crappy accuracy. 

When you can show me an ounce of proof Sony didn't "push it" then you will have an arguement. Until then no, Move failed and Sony tried. If they didn't try it would have not been created. Sony making profit is irrelevant (they have been losing money all gen so good job on making profit on that).

P.S. Since this is offtopic, I wont be replying after this.



S.T.A.G.E. on 27 October 2012
sales2099 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
The Kinect was a media darling but a concrete failure on pushing gaming. To anyone who denies the Kinect cut into the casual attention span they did, how much is truly the question. Microsoft had everybody in the American media under their thumb in 2010. 2011 the Wii's sales dropped drastically, especially in America. Its obvioius their focus changed because Americas purchasing habits on a casual end are media driven. Microsoft has shown the world that top notch marketing trumps being able to back up your cause.

It pushed gaming.....in the casual space. That may not benefit people like us, but hey when you get popular you expand into different audiences.

I get the feeling your trying to say how marketing has saved the Xbox brand, or at least kinect from being ignored by the public. Marketing can only do so much, the products have to deliever to keep those sales trends going long term. And they have, for both 360 and Kinect.

It didnt push anything the Wii or Move couldnt do better from a concrete and sheer control perspective. Sony knew it couldnt do shit because last gen it didnt work for them and the Natal team contacted them first with the Kinect prototype and they still turned it down before it even got into Microsofts hands. Marketing can only do so much? The Kinect and The Eye Toy served the same purpose (they were just in two different gens) and Sony did not shut down time square, they did not go on Jay Leno or any news broadcast. They had the same types of games the Kinect offered as well. People acted like they never saw Kinect-type tech before in America. This is called great marketing vs shitty timid marketing. I would love to see the percentage of Wii or Kinect activity in peoples houses today. I ask because I am sure after the first year it plummeted for the majority of people  (including the Move). More aggressive consumers have been conditioned by cellphone companies to purchase a new phone every two years. The mass audience loves a well marketed novelty.

Sony KNEW the Eyetoy was limited therefore they knew the Kinect was limited but they still tried it and still deemed it limited tech even though it had more powerful parts. R&D knew they had to add something to make the tracking more precise and fluid. The Wii helped in the hybrid concept because Sony saw it as more of a competent tech that could help evolve the tracking in even a way the Wii couldnt do itself without a camera. It could control depth. I bet next gen Microsoft will come up with a peripheral device to complement the Kinect much like the Move compliments the PSEye and it will still outsell it. It will control the 3D space exactly the same as the Move. Microsoft will show Sony how to  market such a product. After that, tell me it isnt marketing. Your name is Sales for crying out loud, you should know this better than anyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoJ1ZNYODUg

Sony and Microsoft do business different. Sony spends more money making games than marketing them, Microsoft does the opposite. 



S.T.A.G.E. on 27 October 2012
phenom08 said:
oniyide said:
 

you live in your own world as usual, SOny didnt put anywhere near the ads that mS did for Kinect thats not pushing, by that logic. When all those games flop we should just stop blaming companies as not pushing them and sending them out to die. Since that seems to be a popular excuse when a game someone like doenst do well. SOny already stated they made profit off of every Move equipment sold. so fail on your part. No Resort could have been made without it, it just would have sucked cause there would have been crappy accuracy. 

When you can show me an ounce of proof Sony didn't "push it" then you will have an arguement. Until then no, Move failed and Sony tried. If they didn't try it would have not been created. Sony making profit is irrelevant (they have been losing money all gen so good job on making profit on that).

P.S. Since this is offtopic, I wont be replying after this.


I've never seen an ad for the Sony Eyetoy last gen, and I've only seen a couple ads for the  Move. I can truly say I cannot count how many Microsoft ad's I've seen for Modern Warfare, Gears of War, Halo, Kinect or even the Xbox 360. I've seen more Gamestop ads than Sony ads.



S.T.A.G.E. on 27 October 2012
phenom08 said:
oniyide said:
 

you live in your own world as usual, SOny didnt put anywhere near the ads that mS did for Kinect thats not pushing, by that logic. When all those games flop we should just stop blaming companies as not pushing them and sending them out to die. Since that seems to be a popular excuse when a game someone like doenst do well. SOny already stated they made profit off of every Move equipment sold. so fail on your part. No Resort could have been made without it, it just would have sucked cause there would have been crappy accuracy. 

When you can show me an ounce of proof Sony didn't "push it" then you will have an arguement. Until then no, Move failed and Sony tried. If they didn't try it would have not been created. Sony making profit is irrelevant (they have been losing money all gen so good job on making profit on that).

P.S. Since this is offtopic, I wont be replying after this.


I've never seen an ad for the Sony Eyetoy last gen, and I've only seen a couple ads for the  Move. I can truly say I cannot count how many Microsoft ad's I've seen for Modern Warfare, Gears of War, Halo, Kinect or even the Xbox 360. Anytime a Microsoft product comes out they run American television. I've seen more Gamestop ads than Sony ads. A lot of journalists have been asking whether Sony has been sending these peripherals out to die or something.



MonstaMack on 27 October 2012

First off, Kinect sold pretty damn well. I think Kinect Adventures is under tracked here when you consider how many people have most likely bought more expensive 360 bundles that come with the Kinect. Same with Carnival games.

The big downside with the sales is MS spent over 500 million on Kinect advertising. So even if it sold insanely well the advertising alone most likely took a bite out of the profit. How much has MS made off each Kinect (stand alone) since launch? That would probably help answer my own question.

Sadly, the Kinect has no real good Kinect only games with the exception of the Dance Central series and maybe Gunstringer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kinect_games . This is the big selling point for me. I refuse to buy a Kinect for more then $50 until it has some really solid titles and it looks like right now we won't be seeing any anytime soon.



It's just that simple.