Maybe I should've added that to my original post. Earlier it was Nintnendo to have mature games censored (a.k.a Mortal Kombat, but no more). Now it's the ESRB that whom becuase they gave Manhunt the AO, that forced R* to tone it down so Nintendo would allow them to publish it on the Wii. I don't think Nintendo cared  at all for the content per se. Its just that the graphic violence "accidentaly* caused it to get the AO.

Oh pretty please rise to my challenges :P

That comment sir, is the stereotype of the classic grown adult core Nintendo gamer to justify their love for Nintendo. Nothing wrong with that, but dont make Nintendo look like something they arent to make yourself feel better.

Its kiddie if there is little effort put into the lor and storytelling. Its kiddie if children can beat the game and adults finish the game with 100+ lives (like NSMB Wii). How the games looks is just the icing on the cake IMO. If its Disney-easue then children is the #1 intended audience. You dont attract adults with bright colors and cute faces unless Nintendo wants to target adults with growing up complexes.Also Nintendo has never made anything M-rated. M rated can range from blood and violence......but it also means the word itself: content and themese not suitable for children. Think about that.

But the first points I feel hold more merit.

I think in actuality what really gave hold to the "kiddie" notion was the decision to not use CDs with the N64.

Up until then, Nintendo made cartoony/whimsical games primarily, but it was never really a big deal because you had all genres and all different styles of games.

That stripped Nintendo of their wider content backing and really narrowed their library offerings.

If that hadn't happened, the N64 could've had games like Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy VII, Silent Hill, etc.

In that case, I don't think the "kiddie stigma" would've stuck to the N64, especially combined with GoldenEye/Turok/etc.

But obviously history didn't work out that way. In a lot of ways, I think Nintendo is still paying for that one decision. It's never ever been the same for them with third parties since then.

I think if Iwata was in charge then, the decision would've been different. They would've kept the cartridge slot on the N64 but sat down with at least the Japanese 3rd parties and listen to their concerns and come up with a compromise (most likely a combo cart/CD system, like the Saturn, so both EAD and third parties would've been happy).

I love this irony

I will say this though ... Ninja Gaiden is a pretty solid franchise. Nintendo should try and secure Ninja Gaiden 4 and work with Tecmo to get the quality level back up (or maybe even broker a peace with Itagaki).

They just need more visible character properties like Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden associated specifically with their brand and it will start to ease some of these stereotypes that cling to Nintendo.

When you think XBox you think Halo and Gears of War. When you think Playstation you think Drake/Uncharted and God of War and Gran Turismo.

Nintendo just lacks identifiable character properties in that same range.

Nintendo is at its best when they make well-polished family friendly games. That's what makes them a dominant force in this industry.

That said, it's strange to have an AO game on a console, especially since that tends to alienate families/children as any console manufacturer's potential demo.

It's always good to broaden your horizons. Nintendo doesn't have to shed its image to offer a variety of gaming experiences. While this may or may not be a deal breaker for some it's good to see something in Nintendo's catalog that truly has something for EVERYONE! Long live the Wii U!

Define West. Because here in Europe nudity will get you a medium rating (USK 12 mabe here in germany), but extreme violence will result in strict ratings. So your observation applies more to the US, than the 'West' in general.

people who always brand themselves as "hardcore gamer" and think nintendo is too kiddy for them have jalopeno in their butt right now.

At first I thought you meant the ESRB AO rating, but Cero Z is nothing surprising.