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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why PS4 won't be cutting edge, and neither will Xbox3 - or Why Nintendo might win next gen

 

Is my reasoning sound?

Hellz yeah! Spot on 265 33.42%
 
I never thought of it like that.... 69 8.70%
 
So it's the mental institution next for you? 101 12.74%
 
So very, very wrong 266 33.54%
 
I'm a pussy with no opinion 88 11.10%
 
Total:789

Wii U = Dreamcast

PS4 = Gamecube

Xbox 720 = Xbox

That's how I see the gap next gen.



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Degausser said:
The big reason the PS3 cost so much was due to the diodes / laser thingies in the Blu-Ray player. They were forced into launching the system a year or two before they wanted to and thus had to make the price so high, and take a huge hit on the sales, to get Blu-Ray through. There shouldn't be any new format with stupidly expensive hardware in it to drive the price up like that, so the comparison is invalid imo.

However, we won't see a jump thats like compairing SD games on the Wii to HD games of PS3 / 360. However, if you've seen games like BF3 or Skyrim on PC high settings, you'll realise there is still a big gap more then capable of opening up when the consoles launch - how much it impacts on Wii's 3rd party support I don't know. I would imagine for the first few years PS3 and 360 will continue to get a lot of the games made for them anyway.

Besides, Microsoft have no idea what Sony are doing and will be developing their new console completely seperate to Sony - and they will make a powerhouse and sell it at a loss if they so desire whether or not Sony do. They can't change the thing after Sony announce the PS4 as they'll have already spent hundreds of millions on the R&D up to this point.

To me it's fairly obvious the PS4 and Xbox 3 will be a big graphical leap over the Wii U (Within what is technologically feasible with todays hardware) - it's the only reason the consoles still arn't announced and they're happy to wait it out a year or more with the Wii U on the market. Cause they need the extra time to make the 'gap' large and affordable.

Let's assume PS4 will cost 40k yen in japan - that roughly translate to $460. They could sell it at $399, taking a loss of 60 bucks. But they can't have a console costing more than that. Period. They can't afford taking bigger hits imo. Now, I don't know how much power a $460 console packs, but surely it can't be leaps over the WiiU?



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

TheShape31 said:
Microsoft is in the best position to come out ahead next gen. Especially if they're able to launch with $299 and $399 pricing, Kinect 2.0, the most 3rd party support, big exclusives, an improved Xbox LIve, a native 1080p @60fps standard for all games, and solid physical gaming media (my biggest hope).

Sony is in the worst position out of the 3 by far. They can only lower the price of PS3 so much, and they don't have the funds that Nintendo and Microsoft have. Compared to a base unit costing $249-269, they'll have to release the PS4 with at least a $499 price tag and a loss. Sony may not survive this next generation, since there's really no market left for such expensive gaming machines.

Nintendo will do fine, and I feel that they will be neck and neck with the new Xbox console this time around. They'll continue to offer unique gameplay and IPs, so they're only obstacle will be pricing this time around. It's a very different economy than when Wii was launched, and people may not be willing to spend as much for that kind of tech.

I wish a new company were joining the console wars to bring a new and fresh face to the hardware scene. All 3 companies seem to be going through the motions, and not able to surprise anyone anymore.

I agree with most of your post, everything except that Xbox3 will have the most 3rd party support :) it's either gonna be equel, or if MS decides to make the über box it's more likely that WiiStation will get better support.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Mummelmann said:

The main reason for the massive cost of HD console hardware was updating it to fit current gen shaders and post-rendering effects along with actually being able to output HD visuals (or near) at acceptable framerates, there is no such jump to the next gen (multicore rendering is a breeze now, for instance).
That means that they will largely build on current core tech and simply expand upon already existing paradigms for development and rendering, the compression rates will also stay very similar for textures, sound and other content.
This does not mean, however, that there won't be a significant leap in technology and the looks of games, especially physics and AI as a means of greater immersion will start to shine for real, and people say the same thing every gen anyway; "the visuals can't/don't need to get better now", which is simply false and a naive stance to assume for anyone.

Now, on to 3rd party support.
There is nothing to suggest that the WiiU will fare better than the Wii in terms of 3rd party support, what it will likely get in heaps instead is late PS360 ports to begin with. Very few 3rd parties will have the balls and patience, and not to mention desire, to utilize the GamePad is a meaningful way, thus leading to a situation similar to that of the Wii-mote; a brilliant controller which never realized its potential at all.
The way the Wii has simply gone and died at the end of the cycle and been crushed by the competition, with even Nintendo themselves not giving a damn (apparently) any longer is sure to make the already timid 3rd parties even more sceptical, and the few chances the Wii got to show its muscles as far as moving multiplatform titles with some actual effort put into it in any actual numbers have also come up lacking. (Remember when people said that Nintendo would follow their pattern and suddenly drop the console in favor of a new one/new one's? Guess what? It happened again, right on cue, Nintendo aren't as reformed as many would like to think sometimes).

Bottom line is; Nintendo are trying to attack two markets at the same time and will fall inbetween the chairs, they're trying to keep the casuals through continued production of casual titles and want to regain their core base and steal customers from the HD consoles all the while attempting to cater to tablet and handheld gamers with their rather unorthodox controller. Unorthodox might not always be a good thing and I think the tablet controller could prove to be the WiiU's greatest asset and weakness all at once.
Another issue will be the fact that Nintendo are playing catch-up on technology and features, where they'll quite simply be beat by better alternatives through smartphones, tablets, PC's and eventually the PS4 and X-box 720.
What they are bragging about as news is old news to users of other platforms and gear and the whole console just reeks of a little misguided design and desperation, they're attempting to be a jack-of all trades but master of none and this will be a great challenge to overcome.

They have lost a lot of face during the Wii's last two years or so and the amount of "I told you so"'s being flung their way is staggering, even Reggie is being mostly quiet these days and massive proponents such as Malstrom and some of our own zealots have abandoned ship a long time ago. Have any of you noticed the complete lack of outlandish claims and predictions for the WiiU and its lifespan? Surely, this console is being launched into a hesitant, fast moving, fickle and treacherous market where it may very well fall short of even moderate expecations (such as mine). If the Wii taught us anything, it would have to be that one is not underestimate Nintendo and one is not to overestimate them.

Could Nintendo win next gen? Sure, they could, as their opponents will be facing some of the same troubles and obstacles but to me it seems like they're trying to copy the success of the Wii, so much in fact, that they have lost their sense of direction. Their early presentations of the WiiU revealed a company in a daze, unprepared and shaken, having their hand forced to leap into the next generation first due to grave circumstances, this is never a good setup for a success.
The Wii was deliberate, focused and determined, the WiiU holds none of that quality and that is why I remain convinced that it has no chance to reach Wii-like sales, not even close (and I will keep repeating that).

I actually thought JEMC answered this pretty nicely...



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

brendude13 said:
Wii U = Dreamcast

PS4 = Gamecube

Xbox 720 = Xbox

That's how I see the gap next gen.

So no PS2 then? That's rather bleak.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

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Crono141 said:

Except there's already an equivalently specced machine that sits at that price point and below, that gets all the same games minus Sony's first party.  The only people who are going to buy a PS3 going forward are the fanboy kids who have to have their parents buy it for them.   The next gen is starting, and can start at the exact same price point as LAST GEN PS3.  PS3 will not hit those sales numbers.  There are better consoles people can spend the exact same amount of money on.  And blu-ray players are cheap now.

What do you mean "same games minus Sony's first party" and "there are better consoles"?

If that's X360 and Wii U you are refering to you got problems with both

Many people will choose PS3 over X360 because of exclusives and free online.

And Wii U has the same problem as a typical launch console. Not many games. You dont even get most of the upcoming multiplats for the Wii U.

Look up the sales. PS3 is on top dominating and Sony is so confident in future sales that it just released another version (Super Slim) and increased the price (at least in NA). That speaks a lot don't you think.

Next gen has not even started and won't truly have started even with the Wii U because we won't see any next gen multiplats until PS4 and Nextbox are released.

Yeah, it shows how full of themselves sony still is.  In the hardcore market, Xbox owns this gen.  There are 3 upcoming games for PS3 that I'm aware of that are exclusive and might be worth having a PS3 for.  Then there's halo 4, and all the Mario goodness on WiiU.  PS3 is not a strong system, and it never has been.  PS3 might surpass Xbox before its all said and done, but it'll never breach 100 million.  That is a pipe dream.

You are correct in that this holiday season is pretty sad for the PS3, but how can you name Halo 4 and say that one game makes a holiday lineup for a system?

And the PS3 absolutely is a strong system. It has Uncharted, Ratchet, inFamous, God of War, LittleBigPlanet, Gran Turismo, and all manner of other exclusive franchises that make it worth owning the system, just like the 360 and Wii. Indeed, I'm sure many people you ask would say the PS3 has the best lineup of the three, and I'm inclined to agree with them.

No, it probably won't hit 100 million. But it is leading in sales so far this year, and its lifetime sales will have been extremely respectable for any platform, considering they will be higher than any other non-Sony home console except the Wii, and higher than the NES which was the best selling game console for a decade.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

DanneSandin said:
Degausser said:
The big reason the PS3 cost so much was due to the diodes / laser thingies in the Blu-Ray player. They were forced into launching the system a year or two before they wanted to and thus had to make the price so high, and take a huge hit on the sales, to get Blu-Ray through. There shouldn't be any new format with stupidly expensive hardware in it to drive the price up like that, so the comparison is invalid imo.

However, we won't see a jump thats like compairing SD games on the Wii to HD games of PS3 / 360. However, if you've seen games like BF3 or Skyrim on PC high settings, you'll realise there is still a big gap more then capable of opening up when the consoles launch - how much it impacts on Wii's 3rd party support I don't know. I would imagine for the first few years PS3 and 360 will continue to get a lot of the games made for them anyway.

Besides, Microsoft have no idea what Sony are doing and will be developing their new console completely seperate to Sony - and they will make a powerhouse and sell it at a loss if they so desire whether or not Sony do. They can't change the thing after Sony announce the PS4 as they'll have already spent hundreds of millions on the R&D up to this point.

To me it's fairly obvious the PS4 and Xbox 3 will be a big graphical leap over the Wii U (Within what is technologically feasible with todays hardware) - it's the only reason the consoles still arn't announced and they're happy to wait it out a year or more with the Wii U on the market. Cause they need the extra time to make the 'gap' large and affordable.

Let's assume PS4 will cost 40k yen in japan - that roughly translate to $460. They could sell it at $399, taking a loss of 60 bucks. But they can't have a console costing more than that. Period. They can't afford taking bigger hits imo. Now, I don't know how much power a $460 console packs, but surely it can't be leaps over the WiiU?


 It's very hard to say as I've yet to see anyone really explain how powerful the Wii-U and until that happens comparisons are impossible. I've not yet seen anything on the Wii-U that looks much better then early PS3 games (i.e. Uncharted, COD4) but I haven't really been following it much - the ports I've seen in most cases look worse or on par with PS360, but obviously that is heavily dependent how much care the third party puts into making them.

 Still, compared to the PS3 technology has moved on some 8 years by it's launch - thats the potential for a huge leap. Further, if you look at what games like BF3 or Skyrim are capable on PC, you'll see Wii-U is nowhere near that and it's imo very likely that's where Xbox 3 and PS4 will be headed graphics wise. Neither company is really innovative enough to go down any other route by GRAPHICS GRAPHICS GRAPHICS.

 I think you'll be surprised how big a hit Sony might be willing to take too, the company is suffering by they can 'justify' loses by balancing it with the revenue from software, a profitable PS3, PSV, PSP and revenue generated from PSN. I would imagine any speculation like that heavily depends on what Microsoft end up doing and how well the Wii-U sells.



I think Sony will be a little more powerful than the WiiU as it is coming out later. But I am not sure by what amount. You really have to make a machine 2x at powerful to even notice. So if it's 5 times as powerful, it will be significant. I think Sony will really be pushing a medium price entry point and lots of high quality games - and something new which I don't think we know much of yet. (They have been trying to make the Playsation the central hub for years.)

As far as Kinect 2.0. The cost of Kinect 1.0 at launch was estimated around $50 for the hardware. Which means it should have sold for about $199 (unless you are Apple, then $399.) Kinect for Windows does sell at $249. A wholesaler wants to double the price, then the retailer doubles it again. It includes an HD colour camera (but only broadcast at ED at 640), the 3D camera, 4 microphones and some other hardware. Even if Kinect 2.0 has amazing hardware, it's not the primary cost of Kinect. The cost is the software/research.

Microsoft has spent dump trucks of money on its Natural User Interface, of which Kinect is a part. Kinect 2.0 will not be limited by the legacy X360s, the way the current one was. I think it will be stronger hardware, but the big boost will be in a significantly more powerful processor(s).

Even if they just stick with DirectX 11.1 (and I hope they go to 12 even-though I don't know what it is yet.) it takes an extremely powerful GPU to render all that extra goodness. Plus, with Kinect 2.0 they will need a super powerful CPU (or set of) for the Xbox to understand you and your environment.

Tie it all up that additional of revenue comes Xbox Live. They run a different model from Sony and Nintendo. Subscription, subscription, subscription. They can sell their hardware at a bigger loss as much of their revenue is Xlive in addition to the high attachment rate of the games.

In conclusion, I think Microsoft will have the most powerful hardware.

But they are still all limited by what is out, and technology keeps innovating along.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

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DanneSandin said:
babuks said:
Since when Nintendo's WiiU is nextgen? It is late in the current gen and they got two consoles in a gen.

So having 2gb os RAM is about the same as the 512 MB PS360 has? No, WiiU is next gen. You'll find out sooner or later that PS4 will only be a slight increase of power over WIiU.


You should calculate overall computing power and not just one two components. If you say so, Wii was of PS2's gen, and now WiiU just joined HD gen.



HappySqurriel said:
Slimebeast said:

That's actually more like a drop off for the X360 you have there (the X360 will fade away much faster than the PS3 once next gen starts).

Do you realize that you put only 6 million PS3 shipped after 2013? Sony will go from producing +40 million PS2s during this gen to only 6 million PS3s during next gen? That's crazy unrealistic.

Also remember that a PS3 still costs $250 with lots of room for future price drops and lots of sales potential in untapped market segments. Meanwhile at this point in last gen (from Spring 2004 to Spring 2006), the PS2 cost only $149.

If you have a large enough userbase, system sales are high enough, you have low enough manufacturing costs, and a large enough library of games with broad appeal you can keep selling a system for years after the next generation begins ... The PS3 is far behind where the PS2 was in all these areas when the previous generation began so its sales will fall off far faster than the PS2's sales did.

Unless you expect Sony to be able to reduce the price to (about) $100 by the end of 2013, and unless Sony can build up hundreds of games that are more approriate for children and new gamers, the PS3 is not going to sell well past 2013.

Agreed.  The PS1 and the PS2 sold so well into the next gens because they were the undisputed leaders of their respected gens with no second place contender remotely close to challenge them.  The PS3 obviously won't have this advantage and with WiiU being the new popular thing on the market with a price that's not far out of range - coupled with the excitement of the new Xbox next year - I don't see the PS3 gaining big numbers after that.

The only scenario where I see PS3 reaching 100m is if Sony puts all of their focus on it for another 3-4 years and refrain from launching PS4 until 2015/16.  Frankly, I think that may be their smartest move from a financial standpoint... even if it means they don't win next gen in sales.