have u played forza 4

Your quoting forum threads by users, and not Turn 10 or PD figures. I'm returning my debate with race driver inputs, actual values for track times, and comments from multiple large scale video game websites. Do you see why your counters have no value? Do you see why I can so easily call your BS?

If I made a thread saying GT5 tracks were 115% wider then in real life, does that make it true? Stop reading forums, and base your comments off real data.

As for my other points? I assume you agree? You stopped bugging me on track times when I busted you above, you stopped hastling me on brakes when I busted you above? Will you now stop spreading these rumors of Forza 3/4 being an inferior simulator? Forza 4 is overall the best, simple as that, but GT5 still has it's merrits. Can't you just accept that?

Three things:

1. Two things killed the US Auto Industry: the United Auto Workers (UAW) and the 1973 Oil Crisis. And a failure to adapt, yes. So three, I guess. Microsoft is not that kind of company. Xbox LIVE itself is very innovative. Kinect is great technology; check out Forza 4.

2. Do you think SON¥ cut the PS3 price because of their aversion of money? They cut it to increase sales of said console and curb the effect of a strong yen in order to (wait for it) increase profit. So did Nintendo, with the 3DS. Microsoft will cut price when Microsoft needs to.

3. All the joy of LIVE, 3 months at a time.

1. US Auto industry died because the Japanese auto industry took them over. Since the mid 1980's Japanese companies have been slowly gaining sales, and now Toyota and GM are on even grounds WW. It's because GM planned their cars to concurrently break down after a period of time. Before the Japanese entered the market it was 3 years (or 90k), and GM was able to make nice looking/driving cars. After the Japanese entered it was 10 years (or 250k), and GM cars all still sold for the same price, but were made of crappier plastic materials in order to balance profit.

I know a ridiculous amount about cars. GM and Crysler fell apart because of poor management. Simple as that. Ford survived because they actually make cars that appeal outside of the US (in Europe you might actually find people driving ford Fiestas and Focus's :-O!) and since the Japanese have entered the market, they have done a good amount to improve quality (largly from partly owning Mazda).

What most US corporations do is make crap products, make them in slave labour conditions in China, and sell them way over priced. I mean iPhones have over a 5,000% profit margin in factories with ridiculously high suicide rates. Nike Shoes cost less then 40 cents to make and transport, and just overall US companies make me sick.

I didn't realize this until recently when my iPhone and X-Box broke on me multiple times.

1.5 - Kinect is cool, overpriced IMO, but cool. Forza 4 is awesome, and XBL is great. I'm not disspointed in quality of MS products, just market strategy.

2. Duh, but not everything is about profit. Sony also realized the main complaint with the PS3 is the high price tag and they lowered it to make it more available to customers.

3. 3 Month XBL gold costs 50% as much as 12 months. Why pay double? Where are the 1 month or 1 week cards? or pre-paid online hours? What if I want to get XLBG just to play Gears 3 online for a week? What if I want to play XBLG all year, but I only want to play an hour or two a month? am I forced to pay $5 an hour? So many flaws with XBL pricing, MS basically forces you to subscribe annually.

You know, XLB Silver accounts used to grant you online access to old games, or XBL games which have PC ports? I used to play Lost Planet online with my silver account until the mandetory XBL update of 2009. Why? I mean if XBL for Windows is free, why do they charge console gamers only? Why am I forced to pay to play old games online which used to be free to play online? The game is too pld for patches and service updates, so I am literally paying for nothing.

I fall into this category because I typically want to play XBL for only a couple days a month. So I have to choose to either pay a ridiculous amount to play Halo in April, or limit my online to 3 month bursts from Sept-Dec.

4. So many things I dislike about MS as a company. As a system, I love my 360, as a company I have little respect for MS.

No, just no. Forza is by far the EASIEST racing game I have ever played when it comes to taking corners. Burnout, NFS and Grid do not compare to the simplicity of flicking or barely moving the left stick in order to take a tight turn. Even on sim mode,with all assists off,  it's almost impossible to accidentally stick your rear end out over steering and underbraking into a tight turn. Even with 800hp at the rear wheels of a standard Dodge viper, the car controls like a BMW m3 with stiff springs and the gtr's traction control. The only thing you have to worry about in Forza is the gas/brake balance. Steering is nearly non existant. All in contrast to playing the gt5 demo at bestbuy for the first time, using a 458 italia at the nurburging, no assists. With a pad, I could not take a clean turn for the life of me without underbraking, oversteering, or overcompensating for drift, feeling the car slip out from under me every time. While Forza may have a good livery, tuning shop, online marketplace and background detail, a SIM it is not. Plus the exclusion of a weather system day/ night system, and the new "Definitive" simulator is not so Definitive after all. If gt5 had launched with just premium cars, people would call it the definitive racer of the gen. But because you want a team of only 140 to possibly render 800 cars in supreme detail in under five years, you'll never be satisfied.

No that's is just BS, you are not playing Forza if this is the case. Even in Forza Motorsport 1, you could only corner without braking if you used engine brakes (which is also possible in real life and GT5). If you don't brake during a corner, you go smack into the wall.

All this BS about cornering is literally just bs. When I play both Forza 3 and GT5, my corner speed is about the same. The only difference is that in GT5 I drift a lot more then I realize (have to look at replays), and thats probably due to a mix between inferior brake modeling and supperior weight shifting models. Forza 4 should top both GT5 and Forza 3 in this regard either way.

What? It's impossible to oversteer in Forza 3....

Weather is one thing GT5 has over Forza 4, but don't overplay this card. PGR4 models the most types of weather compared to any other racing sim, and I wouldn't call PGR4 the definitive sim because of this

You clearly don't know what you are talking about so I'm just not going to talk to you. Play Forza, get a wheel, maybe go on the track one day. The difference between Forza 3 and GT5 isn't major, and both have their own highlights to game and sim components. Forza 4 should beat both games in almost every retrospect.

and no, according to nearly 40 reviews on metacritics. Forza 4 is the definitive racing sim this generation. IGN gave it a full 10% above GT5 and the metascore is about 8% higher. There is a reason for that.

GT5 people unable to accept Forza 4 is supperior is just ignorance. When GT5 released a PS3 exclusive freind of mine blaimed the low score because "GT5 had to compete with Forza 3, where Forza 3 had no competition." Now Forza 4 has to compete with GT5, and it's clearly shown, according to most reviews, that it's supperior.

Just going to have to wait for some digital foundry type article to compare the sim nature of both games, but I would be shocked if GT5 was supperior. It afterall had about 1/4 the development time per person as Forza 4 had.