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Forums - Sales Discussion - Americas UP, October 1st

Michael-5 said:
reviniente said:
Michael-5 said:
 

1. US Auto industry died because the Japanese auto industry took them over. Since the mid 1980's Japanese companies have been slowly gaining sales, and now Toyota and GM are on even grounds WW. It's because GM planned their cars to concurrently break down after a period of time. Before the Japanese entered the market it was 3 years (or 90k), and GM was able to make nice looking/driving cars. After the Japanese entered it was 10 years (or 250k), and GM cars all still sold for the same price, but were made of crappier plastic materials in order to balance profit.

I know a ridiculous amount about cars. GM and Crysler fell apart because of poor management. Simple as that. Ford survived because they actually make cars that appeal outside of the US (in Europe you might actually find people driving ford Fiestas and Focus's :-O!) and since the Japanese have entered the market, they have done a good amount to improve quality (largly from partly owning Mazda).

What most US corporations do is make crap products, make them in slave labour conditions in China, and sell them way over priced. I mean iPhones have over a 5,000% profit margin in factories with ridiculously high suicide rates. Nike Shoes cost less then 40 cents to make and transport, and just overall US companies make me sick.

I didn't realize this until recently when my iPhone and X-Box broke on me multiple times.

1.5 - Kinect is cool, overpriced IMO, but cool. Forza 4 is awesome, and XBL is great. I'm not disspointed in quality of MS products, just market strategy.

2. Duh, but not everything is about profit. Sony also realized the main complaint with the PS3 is the high price tag and they lowered it to make it more available to customers.

3. 3 Month XBL gold costs 50% as much as 12 months. Why pay double? Where are the 1 month or 1 week cards? or pre-paid online hours? What if I want to get XLBG just to play Gears 3 online for a week? What if I want to play XBLG all year, but I only want to play an hour or two a month? am I forced to pay $5 an hour? So many flaws with XBL pricing, MS basically forces you to subscribe annually.

You know, XLB Silver accounts used to grant you online access to old games, or XBL games which have PC ports? I used to play Lost Planet online with my silver account until the mandetory XBL update of 2009. Why? I mean if XBL for Windows is free, why do they charge console gamers only? Why am I forced to pay to play old games online which used to be free to play online? The game is too pld for patches and service updates, so I am literally paying for nothing.

I fall into this category because I typically want to play XBL for only a couple days a month. So I have to choose to either pay a ridiculous amount to play Halo in April, or limit my online to 3 month bursts from Sept-Dec.

4. So many things I dislike about MS as a company. As a system, I love my 360, as a company I have little respect for MS.

You know, you do know a ridiculous amount of stuff.

So, GM designs cars to break down after a while. Really? Next time I see an '73 Impala or a '71 Challenger R/T outpricing a Toyota Crown at an auction, I'll submit a written protest.

Apple products are now crappy because they're manufactured by underpaid, overworked, suicidal chinamen? Maybe you missed post-war Japan. What about Adidas, or Asics, or Puma? Do you think better of them, because their shoes cost more than $0.40 to produce and transport? US companies and their subsidiaries employ the largest amount of workers in China, apart from domestic firms. When labor conditions improve in China, prepare to pay premium for exactly the same thing.

If you're complaining about cost, maybe you should give the (free, for now) PSN a try. From what I hear, when it's not down, it's quite a competent alternative. If you want to squeeze every cent out of your paid LIVE subscription, I sugest you play more.

I know a ridiculous amount about cars, I'm a nut I'll admit. I'm learning about gaming and corporations in general, but I still have a lot to learn.

Next time you see a 67' Impalla (thats when they were best) outprice a Toyota Camry (a Crown is a Camry in Japan), look at the odometer. There will not be a digit for 100,000km (max 99,999.9km - old fashioned dial), and it's likely the car wil be in the 30-60k range. I used to own a 76 Dodge Aspen, it was the same.

I hate US corperations for the reasons you named. Why would a 20 cent pay raise in China translate to a $50 price hike? It's because Nike and Puma can, and people will pay for the logo.

PSN is awesome, I love it. MS has no reason to charge for XBL. I can get facebook and Zune over the browser on PS3, and Netflicks is available on all consoles now. The only benefit XBL has over PSN is party chat, but why am I paying $60 a year for that? Silver accounts used to grant access to online play for PC/360 games, why did that stop, and why are PC gamers who have Windows live (which has the same features as XBL) still allowed to play for free? MS is greedy, and I can;t stand them as a company. However Halo, Gears and Forza are my 3 favorite exclusive franchises this gen, so I at least can thank them for that.

As for playing more XBL, I don't have the time. With work and school, I want a more functional option. Why do I have to play online all year long, or pick which 3 months I want to play? Why can't I suspend my XBL like I  can my internet?

Doesn't the dial reset after it reaches 99,999.9? You can put more into them can you? Well, never mind that. I'm not going to argue cars with you, but Detroit muscle is a source of pride for most Americans.

Yes, people will pay for the logo, won't they? Strap an alligator on a $12 polo shirt and, lo and behold, you have a $65 Lacoste. Why should that be an ethical dilemma for a corporation? Should they charge below market value just to be able to sleep at night?

Free PSN was a business decision SON¥ made to outsmart Microsoft, and it hasn't quite worked as they intended. Mark my words: free online play is on it's way out.

You don't really pay to play all year long; you just pay x amount, and that amount entitles you to a year of online play. How much you play is up to you. Think of it as treading your oppresive $80 Nike sneakers down to the ground to squeeze every cent out of them; you don't have to, but you might as well do it anyway.



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Xerofortune said:

So are you denying the fact that turn 10 stated many times that they are trying to make the game more accesible and fun for everyone? what kind of racing sim allows you to rewind DURING a race. You'd have to be an idiot to believe that gt5 was rated fairly from mainstream reviewers. Almost every review cited the fact that gt5 is a "Disappointment for a game that took 6 years to make".  This was a clear case of US vs Japan developers. The bias was clear, but somewhat unintentional. You clearly don't know what your talking about because the only reason forza was rated higher was because it was a better GAME, not a better sim. Most reviews stated that Gt5 WAS a better sim. In forza, rwd and awd have almost no difference to the feel of the car. The fact of the matter is, the steering in forza is just too damn insensitive. That may have to do with wider tracks to ease difficulty or another unknown reason, but all i know is that the driving physics in forza is about as good as nfs carbon. This makes the game more boring overall and makes it too easy to win races. All in all, in forza your just fine using a controller, in gt5 they basically force you to use a wheel.

Lotus elise w/ race mod: GT5

Rice burner w/ fart cans and decals: Forza

 

Dark Souls has an 89 metacritic as opposed to RAGE getting a mere 82 (much to my dismay). Was Dark Souls not developed entirely in Japan? By japanese? Where did all that pro-US bias go? Hmmm?

And what the hell is a fart can?



Edit: Wrong thread.



reviniente said:
Michael-5 said:

I know a ridiculous amount about cars, I'm a nut I'll admit. I'm learning about gaming and corporations in general, but I still have a lot to learn.

Next time you see a 67' Impalla (thats when they were best) outprice a Toyota Camry (a Crown is a Camry in Japan), look at the odometer. There will not be a digit for 100,000km (max 99,999.9km - old fashioned dial), and it's likely the car wil be in the 30-60k range. I used to own a 76 Dodge Aspen, it was the same.

I hate US corperations for the reasons you named. Why would a 20 cent pay raise in China translate to a $50 price hike? It's because Nike and Puma can, and people will pay for the logo.

PSN is awesome, I love it. MS has no reason to charge for XBL. I can get facebook and Zune over the browser on PS3, and Netflicks is available on all consoles now. The only benefit XBL has over PSN is party chat, but why am I paying $60 a year for that? Silver accounts used to grant access to online play for PC/360 games, why did that stop, and why are PC gamers who have Windows live (which has the same features as XBL) still allowed to play for free? MS is greedy, and I can;t stand them as a company. However Halo, Gears and Forza are my 3 favorite exclusive franchises this gen, so I at least can thank them for that.

As for playing more XBL, I don't have the time. With work and school, I want a more functional option. Why do I have to play online all year long, or pick which 3 months I want to play? Why can't I suspend my XBL like I  can my internet?

Doesn't the dial reset after it reaches 99,999.9? You can put more into them can you? Well, never mind that. I'm not going to argue cars with you, but Detroit muscle is a source of pride for most Americans.

Yes, people will pay for the logo, won't they? Strap an alligator on a $12 polo shirt and, lo and behold, you have a $65 Lacoste. Why should that be an ethical dilemma for a corporation? Should they charge below market value just to be able to sleep at night?

Free PSN was a business decision SON¥ made to outsmart Microsoft, and it hasn't quite worked as they intended. Mark my words: free online play is on it's way out.

You don't really pay to play all year long; you just pay x amount, and that amount entitles you to a year of online play. How much you play is up to you. Think of it as treading your oppresive $80 Nike sneakers down to the ground to squeeze every cent out of them; you don't have to, but you might as well do it anyway.

Some old American cars the dial resents, but not all of them. Pre 1980's, American cars were built to last exactly 3 years. After 3 years the car was engineered so everything would break down on you at the same time, and it's not worth repairing. Thats why US cars were beautiful then. All of a sudden, they got ugly, it was because they started making their cars last longer to fend off the Japanese. However to keep profits up, they reduced the price of the material, fired designers, and made basic ugly boxes. Just remember the generic little mustands of the 90's and how ugly the Corvette C4 is compared to the C3. This is why that happened.

Clothing corporations can easily pay their employees proper wages and lose a 1-2% profit margin. Nike Shoes cost about 40 cents to make, if they paid their employees a reasonable fair, that could go up to $2. If Nike raised the price of shoes $1.60, people would not notice, but there would be some justice to that corporation.

I disagree with you about free PSN. It's one major reason PS3 sales are stronger in EMEAA. It's cutting into Sony's profit, yes, but Japanese corporations aren't as greedy as US ones. It's here to stay, and I bet Nintendo will expand on it with Wii U.

No I pay x amount to play 12 months, and if I don't play 6 of those months I threw x/2 amount away. I should have more online pass options, maybe paying for x many hours, or making 3 months cars reasonably priced.

With those 80 cent Nike shoes I can wear them out in 1 year or 5 years. It's my choice when I want to wear them, it's my choice when I want to throw them out, and If I feel like it I can buy another pair of shoes and hold off wearing those Nike shoe out. So comparing this to 360. If I play my Wii, or DS for 6 months instead of my 360, where is my option to suspend my XLB?



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Michael-5 said:
reviniente said:
Michael-5 said:
 

I know a ridiculous amount about cars, I'm a nut I'll admit. I'm learning about gaming and corporations in general, but I still have a lot to learn.

Next time you see a 67' Impalla (thats when they were best) outprice a Toyota Camry (a Crown is a Camry in Japan), look at the odometer. There will not be a digit for 100,000km (max 99,999.9km - old fashioned dial), and it's likely the car wil be in the 30-60k range. I used to own a 76 Dodge Aspen, it was the same.

I hate US corperations for the reasons you named. Why would a 20 cent pay raise in China translate to a $50 price hike? It's because Nike and Puma can, and people will pay for the logo.

PSN is awesome, I love it. MS has no reason to charge for XBL. I can get facebook and Zune over the browser on PS3, and Netflicks is available on all consoles now. The only benefit XBL has over PSN is party chat, but why am I paying $60 a year for that? Silver accounts used to grant access to online play for PC/360 games, why did that stop, and why are PC gamers who have Windows live (which has the same features as XBL) still allowed to play for free? MS is greedy, and I can;t stand them as a company. However Halo, Gears and Forza are my 3 favorite exclusive franchises this gen, so I at least can thank them for that.

As for playing more XBL, I don't have the time. With work and school, I want a more functional option. Why do I have to play online all year long, or pick which 3 months I want to play? Why can't I suspend my XBL like I  can my internet?

Doesn't the dial reset after it reaches 99,999.9? You can put more into them can you? Well, never mind that. I'm not going to argue cars with you, but Detroit muscle is a source of pride for most Americans.

Yes, people will pay for the logo, won't they? Strap an alligator on a $12 polo shirt and, lo and behold, you have a $65 Lacoste. Why should that be an ethical dilemma for a corporation? Should they charge below market value just to be able to sleep at night?

Free PSN was a business decision SON¥ made to outsmart Microsoft, and it hasn't quite worked as they intended. Mark my words: free online play is on it's way out.

You don't really pay to play all year long; you just pay x amount, and that amount entitles you to a year of online play. How much you play is up to you. Think of it as treading your oppresive $80 Nike sneakers down to the ground to squeeze every cent out of them; you don't have to, but you might as well do it anyway.

Some old American cars the dial resents, but not all of them. Pre 1980's, American cars were built to last exactly 3 years. After 3 years the car was engineered so everything would break down on you at the same time, and it's not worth repairing. Thats why US cars were beautiful then. All of a sudden, they got ugly, it was because they started making their cars last longer to fend off the Japanese. However to keep profits up, they reduced the price of the material, fired designers, and made basic ugly boxes. Just remember the generic little mustands of the 90's and how ugly the Corvette C4 is compared to the C3. This is why that happened.

Clothing corporations can easily pay their employees proper wages and lose a 1-2% profit margin. Nike Shoes cost about 40 cents to make, if they paid their employees a reasonable fair, that could go up to $2. If Nike raised the price of shoes $1.60, people would not notice, but there would be some justice to that corporation.

I disagree with you about free PSN. It's one major reason PS3 sales are stronger in EMEAA. It's cutting into Sony's profit, yes, but Japanese corporations aren't as greedy as US ones. It's here to stay, and I bet Nintendo will expand on it with Wii U.

No I pay x amount to play 12 months, and if I don't play 6 of those months I threw x/2 amount away. I should have more online pass options, maybe paying for x many hours, or making 3 months cars reasonably priced.

With those 80 cent Nike shoes I can wear them out in 1 year or 5 years. It's my choice when I want to wear them, it's my choice when I want to throw them out, and If I feel like it I can buy another pair of shoes and hold off wearing those Nike shoe out. So comparing this to 360. If I play my Wii, or DS for 6 months instead of my 360, where is my option to suspend my XLB?

Your EMEAA argument is ludicrous. As if PSN were free only in Europe or in the Middle East. You think Americans don't like free stuff? Of course they do, but they rather pay for a better product (online play), and a more thought out gaming experience than a free half-baked one. Brand recognition and SON¥'s good reputation with consumer electronics keeps the PS3 ahead in most markets, not free PSN. C'mon Michael, really. You're starting to drop the ball. 

You actually think Nintendo will tolerate free online play? They sell their wares at a profit from the get-go, never at a loss, and now you're entertaining the notion that somehow they'll invest in a reliable, full-featured and efficient online infrastructure that will compete with LIVE and PSN, and end up giving it away for free? This is fantasy.

So, in short, is the current lack of a one-month-at-a-time or a 6-month LIVE membership that you can cancel at any time leaving you dissatisfied? Sounds to me like you're complaining about a paid service. Sounds to me like you want free. Remember, a one-year membership to LIVE entitles you to play online for one year; wether or not you choose to do so, it's up to you.



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wasnt ps3 350k+ for the month last month when vg had it 50k ish per week

i suspect ps3 numbers to be higher that whats on show possibly 70k ish



...not much time to post anymore, used to be awesome on here really good fond memories from VGchartz...

PSN: Skeeuk - XBL: SkeeUK - PC: Skeeuk

really miss the VGCHARTZ of 2008 - 2013...

Michael-5 said:
ethomaz said:
Michael-5 said:
 

Your quoting forum threads by users, and not Turn 10 or PD figures. I'm returning my debate with race driver inputs, actual values for track times, and comments from multiple large scale video game websites. Do you see why your counters have no value? Do you see why I can so easily call your BS?

If I made a thread saying GT5 tracks were 115% wider then in real life, does that make it true? Stop reading forums, and base your comments off real data.

As for my other points? I assume you agree? You stopped bugging me on track times when I busted you above, you stopped hastling me on brakes when I busted you above? Will you now stop spreading these rumors of Forza 3/4 being an inferior simulator? Forza 4 is overall the best, simple as that, but GT5 still has it's merrits. Can't you just accept that?

Sorry. Just stop the car and compare the track with a real one... that's pretty obvious.

Have you ever been to a real track to compare this too?

From my experience with Forza 3 and GT5, Nurburgring is the same width. My car barely fits on the carnival, and I jump out on the exact same spot, and some parts of the track I can barely fit two cars side by side in both games. I don't notice a difference in width.

There is also no official statement ever that Forza 3 tracks are wider. This is a rumor spread by haters.

Forza 3 as a sim is just as good as GT5. Forza 4 is better, I've only put a couple hours into it, but one think I can say for sure is I have never played a game which modeled braking, steering (at high speed) and car noise so well. Forza 4 is levels above Forza 3 and GT5, and like Forza 3 was when it launch, it;s the best this generation.

P.S. I have never raced on any track in GT or Forza, but the few local tracks are pretty damn wide. I think Forza and GT both model tracks well, and honestly I don't see a difference between Forza and GT5


the real life tracks in forza are definatly wider not that it makes it a bad game or anything i think thats in place to make game accesable



...not much time to post anymore, used to be awesome on here really good fond memories from VGchartz...

PSN: Skeeuk - XBL: SkeeUK - PC: Skeeuk

really miss the VGCHARTZ of 2008 - 2013...

Skeeuk said:
Michael-5 said:

Have you ever been to a real track to compare this too?

From my experience with Forza 3 and GT5, Nurburgring is the same width. My car barely fits on the carnival, and I jump out on the exact same spot, and some parts of the track I can barely fit two cars side by side in both games. I don't notice a difference in width.

There is also no official statement ever that Forza 3 tracks are wider. This is a rumor spread by haters.

Forza 3 as a sim is just as good as GT5. Forza 4 is better, I've only put a couple hours into it, but one think I can say for sure is I have never played a game which modeled braking, steering (at high speed) and car noise so well. Forza 4 is levels above Forza 3 and GT5, and like Forza 3 was when it launch, it;s the best this generation.

P.S. I have never raced on any track in GT or Forza, but the few local tracks are pretty damn wide. I think Forza and GT both model tracks well, and honestly I don't see a difference between Forza and GT5


the real life tracks in forza are definatly wider not that it makes it a bad game or anything i think thats in place to make game accesable

I've put in around 50 hours into GT5, and 80 into Forza 3, and I don't see a difference. I take turns at almost identical speeds in identical cars, and in key corners like carnival (nurburgring) I have just as much trouble fitting into specific sections in both games.

There is no evidence of this wider track belief, it's just a rumor.

However the claims of Forza 3 not needing brakes to corner is completly false.



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reviniente said:
Michael-5 said:
 

Some old American cars the dial resents, but not all of them. Pre 1980's, American cars were built to last exactly 3 years. After 3 years the car was engineered so everything would break down on you at the same time, and it's not worth repairing. Thats why US cars were beautiful then. All of a sudden, they got ugly, it was because they started making their cars last longer to fend off the Japanese. However to keep profits up, they reduced the price of the material, fired designers, and made basic ugly boxes. Just remember the generic little mustands of the 90's and how ugly the Corvette C4 is compared to the C3. This is why that happened.

Clothing corporations can easily pay their employees proper wages and lose a 1-2% profit margin. Nike Shoes cost about 40 cents to make, if they paid their employees a reasonable fair, that could go up to $2. If Nike raised the price of shoes $1.60, people would not notice, but there would be some justice to that corporation.

I disagree with you about free PSN. It's one major reason PS3 sales are stronger in EMEAA. It's cutting into Sony's profit, yes, but Japanese corporations aren't as greedy as US ones. It's here to stay, and I bet Nintendo will expand on it with Wii U.

No I pay x amount to play 12 months, and if I don't play 6 of those months I threw x/2 amount away. I should have more online pass options, maybe paying for x many hours, or making 3 months cars reasonably priced.

With those 80 cent Nike shoes I can wear them out in 1 year or 5 years. It's my choice when I want to wear them, it's my choice when I want to throw them out, and If I feel like it I can buy another pair of shoes and hold off wearing those Nike shoe out. So comparing this to 360. If I play my Wii, or DS for 6 months instead of my 360, where is my option to suspend my XLB?

Your EMEAA argument is ludicrous. As if PSN were free only in Europe or in the Middle East. You think Americans don't like free stuff? Of course they do, but they rather pay for a better product (online play), and a more thought out gaming experience than a free half-baked one. Brand recognition and SON¥'s good reputation with consumer electronics keeps the PS3 ahead in most markets, not free PSN. C'mon Michael, really. You're starting to drop the ball. 

You actually think Nintendo will tolerate free online play? They sell their wares at a profit from the get-go, never at a loss, and now you're entertaining the notion that somehow they'll invest in a reliable, full-featured and efficient online infrastructure that will compete with LIVE and PSN, and end up giving it away for free? This is fantasy.

So, in short, is the current lack of a one-month-at-a-time or a 6-month LIVE membership that you can cancel at any time leaving you dissatisfied? Sounds to me like you're complaining about a paid service. Sounds to me like you want free. Remember, a one-year membership to LIVE entitles you to play online for one year; wether or not you choose to do so, it's up to you.

Obviously in Americas free online is appreciated. Americans are just dumb enough to fall for XBL's gimicks and promise of a "better online."

Let's just say it's a difference of opinion. Free PSN obviously attracts sales, but XBL generates a lot of money, that is why Sony introduced Playstation Plus. I believe the former is more important to Sony, where you believe the latter is. Not everything is about profit, a lot has to do with quality, and Japanese companies do cut profit for quality (as seen in the reliability of the consoles directly).

Nintendo isn't controlling the online play for Wii U. They are making it a free market, where developers choose how to make their online functionality work. Meaning, if say EA wanted to, they could charge for online specifically for NFS games or whatever.

When I said Nintendo will expand upon free online with Wii U, I meant Nintendo will invest most into a free online structure for Wii U then they did for Wii. It may not be up to XBL or PSN quality, but it will be good, and free.

I don't mind paying for XBL so long as it;s reasonable. Cell phone companies offer monthly and by the minute cell phone plans, XBL should offer the same. 1 year XBL forces me to play for 1 year, I cannot delay that if I'm on vacation, or if I am too busy to play games all together. I am paying for a parking space, even when I walk to work.

User has been moderated for this post - Kantor



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Michael-5 said:
smroadkill15 said:
Xerofortune said:
 

So are you denying the fact that turn 10 stated many times that they are trying to make the game more accesible and fun for everyone? what kind of racing sim allows you to rewind DURING a race. You'd have to be an idiot to believe that gt5 was rated fairly from mainstream reviewers. Almost every review cited the fact that gt5 is a "Disappointment for a game that took 6 years to make".  This was a clear case of US vs Japan developers. The bias was clear, but somewhat unintentional. You clearly don't know what your talking about because the only reason forza was rated higher was because it was a better GAME, not a better sim. Most reviews stated that Gt5 WAS a better sim. In forza, rwd and awd have almost no difference to the feel of the car. The fact of the matter is, the steering in forza is just too damn insensitive. That may have to do with wider tracks to ease difficulty or another unknown reason, but all i know is that the driving physics in forza is about as good as nfs carbon. This makes the game more boring overall and makes it too easy to win races. All in all, in forza your just fine using a controller, in gt5 they basically force you to use a wheel.

Lotus elise w/ race mod: GT5

Rice burner w/ fart cans and decals: Forza

 

Dude, the reason Turn 10 says Forza 3&4 is more accessable to casual gamers is because you can turn assets on and off. You can also turn rewind feature on and off in Forza 4. Turn 10 promotes turning assets off by giving you more XP and Cash, but someone new to the game can play it how they want.

You sound like a complete biased moron.  

And he says bias is the reason why Forza has higher ratings over GT, when GT is the more established franchise. LOL

Some people just need to compensate for lacking........games.

Please tell me why the F you keep saying that I CLEARLY havent done/ doesn't possess something. I don't know you, you don't know me and will never meet me, so stop saying what I have and have not done.

 

Plus, I just wanted to add that in order for gt5 review scores to be higher than forza, the advertising budget has to be higher, so don't expect gt to get rave reviews ANYtime in the future. While this is true, some games do infact deserve the scores they recieve, just not most.