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yo_john117 said: Why don't you answer my question? |
I missed it... there are some great PC simulators even better than GT5... but the "driving" in GT5 is anything I never played before.
To be fair I sold my PC in 2009... so after that I just played console sims... in PC I liked rFactor and LFS.
ethomaz said:
I missed it... there are some great PC simulators even better than GT5... but the "driving" in GT5 is anything I never played before. To be fair I sold my PC in 2009... so after that I just played console sims... in PC I liked rFactor and LFS. |
Fair enough 
yo_john117 said:
I said previous Gran Turismos. If he really goes for the most realistic racing sims he would have picked PC sims over the other Gran Turismos. |
so I guess you should play previous GT's then.....
Gran Turismo has always been on par physics wise with the PC sims of the time maybe not graphically or content wise, but physics have always been hyper realistic
evolution_1ne said:
so I guess you should play previous GT's then..... Gran Turismo has always been on par physics wise with the PC sims of the time maybe not graphically or content wise, but physics have always been hyper realistic |
Ok
ethomaz said:
If you like track out of proportion, no brake control and [other thing I can't say the word in english] fine. But I don'st like and why I say it lacks reality "driving" with Forza. I didn't played Forza 4 but forza 3 is so and the reviews indicated that it has not changed. |
That's complete BS, I believe both GT5 and Forza 4 both have nurburging modeled to within 12 inches of elevation. Forza tracks are just as accurate as GT5's.
No brake control, that's also BS too because Forza highlights itself on accurate tire grip, and braking. You know identical cars will brake differently on different tracks in Forza 4 because the difference in temperature between regions and on the pavement will alter the braking accordingly? GT5 doesn't have that, braking force is only influenced by elevation, and tread. Braking in GT5 is not influenced by weight distribution to each tire, nor by brake temperature, and only minimally by tire and brake pad wear. Forza 4 by all accounts models braking better then any other simulation racing game in existance.
Forza 3 isn't what you make it out to be. Braking my not be influenced by pavement tempurature like it is in Forza 4, but it's still influenced by many more factors then in GT5 (specifically brake temperature and tire/brake pad wear).
Trust me, I've play a lot of both. I'm about to Complete Forza 3, and I've gotten well over 50 hours in GT5, beating everything except the endurance races. I also use a fan-tech wheel. Racing games are my primary genre, and I basically own, and have beaten every good racing game out there.
What GT5 does better then Forza 3 (not sure about 4 yet) is weight distribution during braking,cornering, and acceleration.. Your car will shift weight more accuratly in GT5 because the models in GT5 allocated the weight of the car to a more speific region then in Forza 3. In Forza 3 the weight of the car was distibuted over 3 regions (front, middle, and rear), and the majority of the influence that did was on braking directly. Momentum of the car wasn't modeled as thoroughly. What GT5 does that makes it better in this aspect then Forza 3 is that the cars weight is distibuted along more then 3 partitions of the car. So if the engine is really far back in the front vs. a normal front engine, GT5 will model that Forza 3 won't (however Forza 4 does this now). However, Forza 3 still does braking better. The benefit of the weight partitioning in GT5 is in momentum. You will notice a car with 40-60 weight distribution corner differently then a car with 35-65 weight distribution, and the same engine layout (RWD, Mid Engine). You won't notice that in Forza 3 (Forza 4 you will, but with momentum specifically GT5 may still be better).
Now I know weight partitioning and car modeling is done just as accuratly in Forza 4 as it is in GT5, and I know aerodynamics, engine braking, tire grip and deformation, engine fatigue, weight adjustment and balance within the car model (How the weight is shifted along the car during cornering and acceleration affecting the pressure on each tire, and thus grip, dip in body, and aerodynamics), and even engine noise among other factors, is better modeled in Forza 4 then GT5, and any other racing Sim (also every aspect I name is influenced by car damage).
The only thing GT5 can model more accuratly then Forza 4 is momentum (I have yet to see it, can only read so much), and models of surrounding building (Forza 3 has almost no city tracks, so I'll have to wait for image by image comparissions). That's not enough to say GT5 is a better simulator. I'd only say that's enough to argue that Forza 4 isn't better in every aspect of simulation to GT5.
:P
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evolution_1ne said:
so I guess you should play previous GT's then..... Gran Turismo has always been on par physics wise with the PC sims of the time maybe not graphically or content wise, but physics have always been hyper realistic |
That's not quite true. GTR 2 for PC models car behavior more accuratly then GT4, and both were released in 2005. However Simbian...(I may have mis-spelled it), fell apart. Race Pro for 360 is a joke, and there isn't anohter GTR for PC in the works. Ontop of that GTR 2 had less then 50 cars, which is nothing compared to any modern GT game.
What Gran Turismo has done in the past, is offer a high graphic, high quality sim on PS1, a realistic sim on PS2, with a crazy amount of cars (650 in GT4), and in GT5 another high graphic, high quality sim, with a crazy number of cars (even if 20% of them are basically identical).
However the flaw with GT5 is that, that game needed more development time, and with PD as such a small company (140 employee's) the rate of technological improvements in racing, is faster then what they can develop. Sony needs to expand PD. Microsoft tripled the size of Turn 10 in only 6 years, and look at the quality of Forza. It's sky rocketed.
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| Michael-5 said: That's complete BS, I believe both GT5 and Forza 4 both have nurburging modeled to within 12 inches of elevation. Forza tracks are just as accurate as GT5's. No brake control, that's also BS too because Forza highlights itself on accurate tire grip, and braking. You know identical cars will brake differently on different tracks in Forza 4 because the difference in temperature between regions and on the pavement will alter the braking accordingly? GT5 doesn't have that, braking force is only influenced by elevation, and tread. Braking in GT5 is not influenced by weight distribution to each tire, nor by brake temperature, and only minimally by tire and brake pad wear. Forza 4 by all accounts models braking better then any other simulation racing game in existance. Forza 3 isn't what you make it out to be. Braking my not be influenced by pavement tempurature like it is in Forza 4, but it's still influenced by many more factors then in GT5 (specifically brake temperature and tire/brake pad wear). Trust me, I've play a lot of both. I'm about to Complete Forza 3, and I've gotten well over 50 hours in GT5, beating everything except the endurance races. I also use a fan-tech wheel. Racing games are my primary genre, and I basically own, and have beaten every good racing game out there. What GT5 does better then Forza 3 (not sure about 4 yet) is weight distribution during braking,cornering, and acceleration.. Your car will shift weight more accuratly in GT5 because the models in GT5 allocated the weight of the car to a more speific region then in Forza 3. In Forza 3 the weight of the car was distibuted over 3 regions (front, middle, and rear), and the majority of the influence that did was on braking directly. Momentum of the car wasn't modeled as thoroughly. What GT5 does that makes it better in this aspect then Forza 3 is that the cars weight is distibuted along more then 3 partitions of the car. So if the engine is really far back in the front vs. a normal front engine, GT5 will model that Forza 3 won't (however Forza 4 does this now). However, Forza 3 still does braking better. The benefit of the weight partitioning in GT5 is in momentum. You will notice a car with 40-60 weight distribution corner differently then a car with 35-65 weight distribution, and the same engine layout (RWD, Mid Engine). You won't notice that in Forza 3 (Forza 4 you will, but with momentum specifically GT5 may still be better). Now I know weight partitioning and car modeling is done just as accuratly in Forza 4 as it is in GT5, and I know aerodynamics, engine braking, tire grip and deformation, engine fatigue, weight adjustment and balance within the car model (How the weight is shifted along the car during cornering and acceleration affecting the pressure on each tire, and thus grip, dip in body, and aerodynamics), and even engine noise among other factors, is better modeled in Forza 4 then GT5, and any other racing Sim (also every aspect I name is influenced by car damage). The only thing GT5 can model more accuratly then Forza 4 is momentum (I have yet to see it, can only read so much), and models of surrounding building (Forza 3 has almost no city tracks, so I'll have to wait for image by image comparissions). That's not enough to say GT5 is a better simulator. I'd only say that's enough to argue that Forza 4 isn't better in every aspect of simulation to GT5. :P |
I take it you played Forza 4 because no one said it does any of the shit BETTER than GT5, as a matter of a fact not a single review that I've read even mentioned any that
shit I would love to see you back up anything you said in that post buddy because it sounds like utter bullshit to me.
you know what add me on psn, so I can check out your profile because you sound like someone who has no fucking clue as to what they are talking about and thinks a big post is all that's need to cloud that fact
you are aware that GT5 does everything you mentioned and modeled it to perfection right, how all of the things (including brakes) can be and often need to be tuned to optimize the performance of the cars right, it's the reason PD are adding multiple tune slots in the Spec 2 update because of the different tracks requiring different adjustments for optimal performance.
things like engine fatigue (which effects overall horse power and toque) , chassis rigidity ( which effect aerodynamics), and oil changes all need to be carefully monitored in GT5 because they do effect performance if allowed to wear..... you've put hours in GT5 so you should know just how accurate this game is, I love for you to show me how Turn 10 beat perfection
and GT takes it further than what can even get in Forza 4 because on top on tire and break performance on different track temps. GT does it in Rain, and Snow
anyway I love to continue and destroy your belief that Forza 4 does physics better than GT5 because it LITERALLY CAN'T, but F1 at Suzuka is starting so I can't be arsed, cheerio
evolution_1ne said:
shit I would love to see you back up anything you said in that post buddy because it sounds like utter bullshit to me. you know what add me on psn, so I can check out your profile because you sound like someone who has no fucking clue as to what they are talking about and thinks a big post is all that's need to cloud that fact you are aware that GT5 does everything you mentioned and modeled it to perfection right, how all of the things (including brakes) can be and often need to be tuned to optimize the performance of the cars right, it's the reason PD are adding multiple tune slots in the Spec 2 update because of the different tracks requiring different adjustments for optimal performance. things like engine fatigue (which effects overall horse power and toque) , chassis rigidity ( which effect aerodynamics), and oil changes all need to be carefully monitored in GT5 because they do effect performance if allowed to wear..... you've put hours in GT5 so you should know just how accurate this game is, I love for you to show me how Turn 10 beat perfection and GT takes it further than what can even get in Forza 4 because on top on tire and break performance on different track temps. GT does it in Rain, and Snow anyway I love to continue and destroy your belief that Forza 4 does physics better than GT5 because it LITERALLY CAN'T, but F1 at Suzuka is starting so I can't be arsed, cheerio |
Not once have I said I played Forza 4, and multiple times I said I expect it to be better then Forza 3/GT5 in this regard, and that I will have to play the game myself before I can judge it.
My PS3 is broken, I can give you my PSN, but it will be a couple months before I can add you. I can give you a couple cars if you like cause I don't really play GT5 anymore, and probably won't pick it up again after Forza 4 comes out (except to challenge friends).
Turn 10 has the rights to replicate damage in racing simulators. This includes tire deformation. GT5 does not do damage past a cosmetic level (except for artificial damage penalties based on collision speed, but not actual damage). GT5 also does not do tire deformation. I would have to look up an article saying what Turn 10 has exclusive rights to, it's been a while, but Polyphony Digital cannot simulate several aspects of racing because of Turn 10 and MS. Just like how Forza 4 and GT can't get Porsche because of EA.
Engine fatigue -> damage. Forza has rights to it, GT can only model penalties based on calculations of engine fatigue, but they cannot develop an engine which models engine wear over time. Meaning if you do a race in GT5, and you gear down too fast, your engine will not get damaged. All PD can do is add a penalty to your lap time, or slow your car down by an estimated value. In Forza 2, 3 and I assume 4, your engine can blow from doing this too much, and this can limit your car to nearly a crawl speed.
Chassis Rigidity I'd have to read up on. I know this is something well modeled in GT5, and for the purpose of aerodynamics and assigning weight distributions during breaking, it's done will in Forza 3. However like I said the momentum of the weight shifting is modeled damn well in GT5 (you can see this when your car dips in a corner), and I would have to see personally if Forza 4 can match GT5 in this aspect. Reading most reviews, as a simulation racing game, people generally conclude Forza 4 is best, so I assume Forza 4 can at least match GT5 in this aspect.
Oil changes....LOL Something PD could make a model for that didn't infringe on Turn 10's rights for simulation racing games. Only time this ever made a difference in GT5 was when you bought a used car, or raced 1 car way too many times.
How accurate what in particluar is about GT5? I said weight shifting when cornering was really well done in GT5, and there are other highlights GT5 has over Forza 3. However in general, GT5 models simulation aspects of racing about as well as Forza 3. From what reviewers say, and what I read, Forza 4 is best. Take IGN's review for instance "With Forza 4 Turn 10 has crafted a driving game like no other; it's hands-down this generation's premier racing simulator."
Forza 4 is the closest thing to racing simulation perfection this generation, and even then it's far from perfect. The fact that you think GT5 is perfect shows a lot of ignorance because Forza 3 and GT5 both behave significantly different from real world racing.
PGR4 did Rain, Snow and Ice too. Is it a more detailed racing sim because it has Ariel Atoms in it and Ice? Kudos for GT5 to include those aspects of the game, but at the same time Kudos to Turn 10 for focusing on plain racing, and making it as acccurate as possible before expanding the simulation to encorporate weather. GT5 is an amazing sim, and it has it's advantages over Forza, but for the same reason PGR4 has advantages over GT5 and Forza as well lol.
Wow, Forza literally can't be a better sim then GT? You are ignorant. Go race on a real track, and observe how poorly bumps in the track are immitated in any racing game. Try to match your track time in GT5 or Forza in real life, you won't be able to do it, not without hours and hours of practice.
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Michael-5 said:
That's complete BS, I believe both GT5 and Forza 4 both have nurburging modeled to within 12 inches of elevation. Forza tracks are just as accurate as GT5's. No brake control, that's also BS too because Forza highlights itself on accurate tire grip, and braking. You know identical cars will brake differently on different tracks in Forza 4 because the difference in temperature between regions and on the pavement will alter the braking accordingly? GT5 doesn't have that, braking force is only influenced by elevation, and tread. Braking in GT5 is not influenced by weight distribution to each tire, nor by brake temperature, and only minimally by tire and brake pad wear. Forza 4 by all accounts models braking better then any other simulation racing game in existance. Forza 3 isn't what you make it out to be. Braking my not be influenced by pavement tempurature like it is in Forza 4, but it's still influenced by many more factors then in GT5 (specifically brake temperature and tire/brake pad wear). Trust me, I've play a lot of both. I'm about to Complete Forza 3, and I've gotten well over 50 hours in GT5, beating everything except the endurance races. I also use a fan-tech wheel. Racing games are my primary genre, and I basically own, and have beaten every good racing game out there. What GT5 does better then Forza 3 (not sure about 4 yet) is weight distribution during braking,cornering, and acceleration.. Your car will shift weight more accuratly in GT5 because the models in GT5 allocated the weight of the car to a more speific region then in Forza 3. In Forza 3 the weight of the car was distibuted over 3 regions (front, middle, and rear), and the majority of the influence that did was on braking directly. Momentum of the car wasn't modeled as thoroughly. What GT5 does that makes it better in this aspect then Forza 3 is that the cars weight is distibuted along more then 3 partitions of the car. So if the engine is really far back in the front vs. a normal front engine, GT5 will model that Forza 3 won't (however Forza 4 does this now). However, Forza 3 still does braking better. The benefit of the weight partitioning in GT5 is in momentum. You will notice a car with 40-60 weight distribution corner differently then a car with 35-65 weight distribution, and the same engine layout (RWD, Mid Engine). You won't notice that in Forza 3 (Forza 4 you will, but with momentum specifically GT5 may still be better). Now I know weight partitioning and car modeling is done just as accuratly in Forza 4 as it is in GT5, and I know aerodynamics, engine braking, tire grip and deformation, engine fatigue, weight adjustment and balance within the car model (How the weight is shifted along the car during cornering and acceleration affecting the pressure on each tire, and thus grip, dip in body, and aerodynamics), and even engine noise among other factors, is better modeled in Forza 4 then GT5, and any other racing Sim (also every aspect I name is influenced by car damage). The only thing GT5 can model more accuratly then Forza 4 is momentum (I have yet to see it, can only read so much), and models of surrounding building (Forza 3 has almost no city tracks, so I'll have to wait for image by image comparissions). That's not enough to say GT5 is a better simulator. I'd only say that's enough to argue that Forza 4 isn't better in every aspect of simulation to GT5. :P |
No, just no. Forza is by far the EASIEST racing game I have ever played when it comes to taking corners. Burnout, NFS and Grid do not compare to the simplicity of flicking or barely moving the left stick in order to take a tight turn. Even on sim mode,with all assists off, it's almost impossible to accidentally stick your rear end out over steering and underbraking into a tight turn. Even with 800hp at the rear wheels of a standard Dodge viper, the car controls like a BMW m3 with stiff springs and the gtr's traction control. The only thing you have to worry about in Forza is the gas/brake balance. Steering is nearly non existant. All in contrast to playing the gt5 demo at bestbuy for the first time, using a 458 italia at the nurburging, no assists. With a pad, I could not take a clean turn for the life of me without underbraking, oversteering, or overcompensating for drift, feeling the car slip out from under me every time. While Forza may have a good livery, tuning shop, online marketplace and background detail, a SIM it is not. Plus the exclusion of a weather system day/ night system, and the new "Definitive" simulator is not so Definitive after all. If gt5 had launched with just premium cars, people would call it the definitive racer of the gen. But because you want a team of only 140 to possibly render 800 cars in supreme detail in under five years, you'll never be satisfied.
|
Michael-5 said: That's complete BS, I believe both GT5 and Forza 4 both have nurburging modeled to within 12 inches of elevation. Forza tracks are just as accurate as GT5's. No brake control, that's also BS too because Forza highlights itself on accurate tire grip, and braking. You know identical cars will brake differently on different tracks in Forza 4 because the difference in temperature between regions and on the pavement will alter the braking accordingly? GT5 doesn't have that, braking force is only influenced by elevation, and tread. Braking in GT5 is not influenced by weight distribution to each tire, nor by brake temperature, and only minimally by tire and brake pad wear. Forza 4 by all accounts models braking better then any other simulation racing game in existance. Forza 3 isn't what you make it out to be. Braking my not be influenced by pavement tempurature like it is in Forza 4, but it's still influenced by many more factors then in GT5 (specifically brake temperature and tire/brake pad wear). Trust me, I've play a lot of both. I'm about to Complete Forza 3, and I've gotten well over 50 hours in GT5, beating everything except the endurance races. I also use a fan-tech wheel. Racing games are my primary genre, and I basically own, and have beaten every good racing game out there. What GT5 does better then Forza 3 (not sure about 4 yet) is weight distribution during braking,cornering, and acceleration.. Your car will shift weight more accuratly in GT5 because the models in GT5 allocated the weight of the car to a more speific region then in Forza 3. In Forza 3 the weight of the car was distibuted over 3 regions (front, middle, and rear), and the majority of the influence that did was on braking directly. Momentum of the car wasn't modeled as thoroughly. What GT5 does that makes it better in this aspect then Forza 3 is that the cars weight is distibuted along more then 3 partitions of the car. So if the engine is really far back in the front vs. a normal front engine, GT5 will model that Forza 3 won't (however Forza 4 does this now). However, Forza 3 still does braking better. The benefit of the weight partitioning in GT5 is in momentum. You will notice a car with 40-60 weight distribution corner differently then a car with 35-65 weight distribution, and the same engine layout (RWD, Mid Engine). You won't notice that in Forza 3 (Forza 4 you will, but with momentum specifically GT5 may still be better). Now I know weight partitioning and car modeling is done just as accuratly in Forza 4 as it is in GT5, and I know aerodynamics, engine braking, tire grip and deformation, engine fatigue, weight adjustment and balance within the car model (How the weight is shifted along the car during cornering and acceleration affecting the pressure on each tire, and thus grip, dip in body, and aerodynamics), and even engine noise among other factors, is better modeled in Forza 4 then GT5, and any other racing Sim (also every aspect I name is influenced by car damage). The only thing GT5 can model more accuratly then Forza 4 is momentum (I have yet to see it, can only read so much), and models of surrounding building (Forza 3 has almost no city tracks, so I'll have to wait for image by image comparissions). That's not enough to say GT5 is a better simulator. I'd only say that's enough to argue that Forza 4 isn't better in every aspect of simulation to GT5. :P |
If you played Forza 3 so much... you know the tracks are greater than the real one... it is a bit wider to facilitate the driving... GT5 not, the tracks are close to real one.... even the imperfection are perfectly reproduced.
Because that the lap time in GT5 are close to real... Forza 3 not... the Nurburgring track is too easy in Forza 3 because Turn 10 made the track wider and turns wider.
Not just it... the driving in Forza 3 is so easy even with assists turned off... you can make every turn without braking or effort.
Maybe that's the point... for a game the Forza serie is more funny and easy than GT serie... but for simulator the GT serie is more accurate and close to real... reviewers pefers more a game than a simulator 
... but I can't say the samething about the gamers (they prefer GT over Forza) 
.
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