What?! Epic were great! I loved Xargon back in the day! :D

Bethesda didn't really take off until Elder Scrolls: Arena in 1993 (I think, maybe '94). Before that they did some film games/ports or something along those lines.

true in the sense you are talking and i agree as they are making games they are not a failure

but you know the OP isn't talking about it in business sense,its not whether the company is making games and profiting.

you can always go and leave that sort of comment but whats the use when the discussion isn't about it,its not helping or contributing to the main point of the debate.

we are talking in in the artistic sense.

yeah times have changed but it isn't just like that some of the bet developers just start sucking at their work one day.

i agree MS's use of them has alot to do with it.

my main reasons are many employees leaving and MS not using them properly

Firstly why arent you properly discussing this, you are simply attacking my words. Not substance in words. It is 2 different things. 

No I do get what the OP said, as I did in the other thread... It is a matter of opinion by what someone sees as falling. 

And no I was using Legendary games because the person I was quoting did, I cant remember who that was now, I also said that they have to start their IP's over which is not really that easy for some companies considering they have been doing the same ones for a while. 

Ok if you are going to take the role of an English teacher its my turn. 

At Bolded :

lame reasoning - Explain which parts and why you think it is lame reasoning

Which i can't blame you as they don't have many left - I did actually point to their strengths, my examples were Kinect and assoc, games after they went to MS, they have actually been put in charge of a lot of MS future endeavours... this is a strength imo.

You yourself are saying in a sense they have fallen - No I hadn't, I said they were starting new IP's you disregarded the first few, so if you are patient they will make more for your specifications. Just ask them nicely okay.

Big Hitters etc - Your opinion vs Mine

Legendary - Using quoted words

Rare = Newborn babies - well this isnt true, they have done a few new IP's, they are doing massive works in and around MS game studios. 

Rare? Lol, they don't exist anymore, I figured everyone had gotten over that by now...

They're Rare in name only, now. All the talent's long since left, including the original creators of the company. They're simply an average developer nowadays, with the name of one that used to be great. Just a fact.

@AussieGecko said:

Firstly why arent you properly discussing this, you are simply attacking my words. Not substance in words. It is 2 different things. 

i do,you just don't seem to understand.

No I do get what the OP said, as I did in the other thread... It is a matter of opinion by what someone sees as falling. 

thats the problem,you are giving your opionion more incentive than just discussing visible facts out there

And no I was using Legendary games because the person I was quoting did, I cant remember who that was now, I also said that they have to start their IP's over which is not really that easy for some companies considering they have been doing the same ones for a while. 

you were quoting me.

with MS's backing who  has big bucks and loads heavy advertising behind their products.i think they are atleast well supported apart from the fact the types of games MS wants them to make.

Ok if you are going to take the role of an English teacher its my turn. 

At Bolded :

lame reasoning - Explain which parts and why you think it is lame reasoning

"the op said they have fallen but i say not"

is this 2nd grade

we can understand you seem to disagree but you don't have to put sentences like that out there

abt the lame reasoning part,you don't think they have fallen and you try to say that is just becase of they are making kinect games and their old  games are legally available for them.

you yourself sumed up how they have failed but you seem to disagree

Which i can't blame you as they don't have many left - I did actually point to their strengths, my examples were Kinect and assoc, games after they went to MS, they have actually been put in charge of a lot of MS future endeavours... this is a strength imo.

RARE had fallen long before KINECT and  developing KINECT games is like developing Wii sports or wii play or wii fit or wii party or i could go on and on.

we are talking about legendary games and you come in and say,oh they are doing amazing kinect stuff and that means they haven't fallen which shows that you think kinect games are as good as thos legendary games that you think they are still as good.

over that you talk about future endevours as they are big things,developing your system design and avatars is bad future endevour

future endevour that rare deserve is to have its own HALO level comparing to what they have done in the past

You yourself are saying in a sense they have fallen - No I hadn't, I said they were starting new IP's you disregarded the first few, so if you are patient they will make more for your specifications. Just ask them nicely okay.

i think we have all been patient for alot of years

you think kinect sports is new ip that they will continue...................lol

that is like a one or two time game.it cannot be taken as a franshise.

it is just a hardware supporter just like WII SPORTS and SPORTS CHAMPIONS MOVE.

Big Hitters etc - Your opinion vs Mine

it wasn't and opinion again,you can see the impact that their products have made compared to their past products

Legendary - Using quoted words

Rare = Newborn babies - well this isnt true, they have done a few new IP's, they are doing massive works in and around MS game studios. 

again just creating new ips shouldn't be their task,their task should be creating an ip that matters

and again you yourself sumed them up,they are doing massive works around MS game studios as they don't have their own big game that matters like it did in the past

RARE, while I think that the majority of their games this gen are underrated they have without a doubt fallen from grace.  DKC2 is among the best 2D platformers I've ever played, the same can be said with Banjo Kazooie and 3D Platformers or DKR with Kart racers.  I have also thought Blast Corps and Starfox Adventures were highly underrated.

I'm sorry, but the likes of It's Mr Pants and Kameo IMO don't stand up to their past games one bit.

Because some people like Rare and others don't.

Me? I don't care.

And how can ANYONE put down Jazz Jackrabbit?! He ruled.

Eh, I'm glad they didn't release what would've been Jazz 3(D)...it looked like garbage.

It sure did.

They should have kept making 2D Jazz Jackrabbits though. Those games were not just some of the best computer platformers, but some of the very best platformers of their era.