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Forums - General Discussion - Where would the world be right now if religion never existed?

pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:

You clearly don't have much experience with the mentally ill. 

Btw, also in the same wiki article it actually states the cause of her death:

"On July 1, 1976, Anneliese Michel died in her sleep. The autopsy report stated that her death resulted from the malnutrition and dehydration due to almost a year of semi-starvation during which time the rites of exorcism were also performed.[4]"

Starvation, dehydration and mentally induced anorexia are well known to Psychologists.

So what word do the psychologists use for the state when you dont wanna eat food AT ALL ???? And how coe doctors and psychologists wernt able to help her???

After years of unsuccessful psychiatric treatments, they gave up on medical treatment and chose to rely solely on the exorcisms for healing.[2] The rites of exorcism were performed over the course of about ten months in 1976.. Though she had received treatment for epilepsy, by this time, at her own request, doctors were no longer being consulted.[2] This was because Anneliese mentioned the "demons" to the doctors, explaining that they started to give her orders.[1] The doctors seemed unable to help, and Anneliese lost hope that medicine was going to be able to cure her.[1]

I repeat what I said before:

"You clearly don't have much experience with the mentally ill."

I gave you the term for people that don't want to eat food at all: "mentally induced anorexia". Lots of people don't want to eat any food. Whilst the reasoning may be different the psychological and physical effects are the same.

When you go to the doctor can they always help you? We're still discovering causes and treatments for mental (and metabolic and biological for that matter) disease all the time. Doctors do the best they can at the time, but they can't cure everyone with every disease. The past is filled with poorly thought or misunderstood diseases and treatments. Just because they couldn't cure her doesn't mean it can be attributed to demonic possesion.

Look at the underlined, she refused treatment at the time for epilepsy. A relatively common problem that even today has no cure and is no way attributable to demonic possesion. This coupled with the fact that she wasn't eating shows she had significant mental health problems. In this day and age she'd probably be forced to have treatment as she was a danger to herself as she wasn't eating. Back then they got away with it.

If this was to happen today, it'd be considerred the priests fault for not ensuring she received proper medical attention and to a lesser extent social services for not correctly assesing her properly.


i see...still doesnt explain why she didnt want to drink holy water and couldnt get pass by icon of Jesus Christ, and start seeing demons every time she was praying, and eating bugs and spiders and started speajing some un-human language that only priests with very high biblical and relgious education could understand( go check it out on youtube)

All sounds like deep rooted psychological problems to me. Doctors these days would probably be able to give a better diagnosis than they did back then.



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Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:

You clearly don't have much experience with the mentally ill. 

Btw, also in the same wiki article it actually states the cause of her death:

"On July 1, 1976, Anneliese Michel died in her sleep. The autopsy report stated that her death resulted from the malnutrition and dehydration due to almost a year of semi-starvation during which time the rites of exorcism were also performed.[4]"

Starvation, dehydration and mentally induced anorexia are well known to Psychologists.

So what word do the psychologists use for the state when you dont wanna eat food AT ALL ???? And how coe doctors and psychologists wernt able to help her???

After years of unsuccessful psychiatric treatments, they gave up on medical treatment and chose to rely solely on the exorcisms for healing.[2] The rites of exorcism were performed over the course of about ten months in 1976.. Though she had received treatment for epilepsy, by this time, at her own request, doctors were no longer being consulted.[2] This was because Anneliese mentioned the "demons" to the doctors, explaining that they started to give her orders.[1] The doctors seemed unable to help, and Anneliese lost hope that medicine was going to be able to cure her.[1]

I repeat what I said before:

"You clearly don't have much experience with the mentally ill."

I gave you the term for people that don't want to eat food at all: "mentally induced anorexia". Lots of people don't want to eat any food. Whilst the reasoning may be different the psychological and physical effects are the same.

When you go to the doctor can they always help you? We're still discovering causes and treatments for mental (and metabolic and biological for that matter) disease all the time. Doctors do the best they can at the time, but they can't cure everyone with every disease. The past is filled with poorly thought or misunderstood diseases and treatments. Just because they couldn't cure her doesn't mean it can be attributed to demonic possesion.

Look at the underlined, she refused treatment at the time for epilepsy. A relatively common problem that even today has no cure and is no way attributable to demonic possesion. This coupled with the fact that she wasn't eating shows she had significant mental health problems. In this day and age she'd probably be forced to have treatment as she was a danger to herself as she wasn't eating. Back then they got away with it.

If this was to happen today, it'd be considerred the priests fault for not ensuring she received proper medical attention and to a lesser extent social services for not correctly assesing her properly.


i see...still doesnt explain why she didnt want to drink holy water and couldnt get pass by icon of Jesus Christ, and start seeing demons every time she was praying, and eating bugs and spiders and started speajing some un-human language that only priests with very high biblical and relgious education could understand( go check it out on youtube)

All sounds like deep rooted psychological problems to me. Doctors these days would probably be able to give a better diagnosis than they did back then.


Or maybe demonic possesion???



pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:

I repeat what I said before:

"You clearly don't have much experience with the mentally ill."

I gave you the term for people that don't want to eat food at all: "mentally induced anorexia". Lots of people don't want to eat any food. Whilst the reasoning may be different the psychological and physical effects are the same.

When you go to the doctor can they always help you? We're still discovering causes and treatments for mental (and metabolic and biological for that matter) disease all the time. Doctors do the best they can at the time, but they can't cure everyone with every disease. The past is filled with poorly thought or misunderstood diseases and treatments. Just because they couldn't cure her doesn't mean it can be attributed to demonic possesion.

Look at the underlined, she refused treatment at the time for epilepsy. A relatively common problem that even today has no cure and is no way attributable to demonic possesion. This coupled with the fact that she wasn't eating shows she had significant mental health problems. In this day and age she'd probably be forced to have treatment as she was a danger to herself as she wasn't eating. Back then they got away with it.

If this was to happen today, it'd be considerred the priests fault for not ensuring she received proper medical attention and to a lesser extent social services for not correctly assesing her properly.


i see...still doesnt explain why she didnt want to drink holy water and couldnt get pass by icon of Jesus Christ, and start seeing demons every time she was praying, and eating bugs and spiders and started speajing some un-human language that only priests with very high biblical and relgious education could understand( go check it out on youtube)

All sounds like deep rooted psychological problems to me. Doctors these days would probably be able to give a better diagnosis than they did back then.


Or maybe demonic possesion???

Of which there is no evidence. Logically, there's more evidence supporting psychological problems (especially when others exhibit similar symptoms) than for demonic posession.



Simple. We would be in Stone Age again. Why? Because we would soo advanced that we would have developed mass destruction weapons that destroy whole civilizations.

Just like Albert Einstein once said: "I don't know how World War 3 will look like, but I'm sure in World War 4 we are fighting with clubs and stones again."



updated: 14.01.2012

playing right now: Xenoblade Chronicles

Hype-o-meter, from least to most hyped:  the Last Story, Twisted Metal, Mass Effect 3, Final Fantasy XIII-2, Final Fantasy Versus XIII, Playstation ViTA

bet with Mordred11 that Rage will look better on Xbox 360.

No religion, ever? Which is to say, no system of beliefs for explaining the way in which the world around us functions, without scientific evidence? Humanity would probably never have evolved. We would have remained simple animals, going about our everyday lives until some natural event or another drove us to extinction. We would have no civilisation without anything to tie us together. Oh, and even if we did survive, no justification to do things which were morally right, anarchy, huge wars, and destruction that way.

No religious institutions? Now, that's a very different thing. No crusades, no dark ages, no Spanish inquisition, so if Family Guy is to be believed, we would be a thousand years in the future, and Meg Griffin would be attractive.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

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Kantor said:

No religion, ever? Which is to say, no system of beliefs for explaining the way in which the world around us functions, without scientific evidence? Humanity would probably never have evolved. We would have remained simple animals, going about our everyday lives until some natural event or another drove us to extinction. We would have no civilisation without anything to tie us together. Oh, and even if we did survive, no justification to do things which were morally right, anarchy, huge wars, and destruction that way.

No religious institutions? Now, that's a very different thing. No crusades, no dark ages, no Spanish inquisition, so if Family Guy is to be believed, we would be a thousand years in the future, and Meg Griffin would be attractive.

I'm pretty sure those things happened anyway, and religion contributed to them in certain situations, rather than prevent them.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

aher052 said:

Jesus was testing her faith and making a statement to his disciples that no matter what race she was that they should help everyone (back in that time anyone other than jews were called dogs) she had alot of faith and answered that even dogs eat the crumbs from the table.......jesus liked her faith and healed her daughter......

 

please read the entire story before saying he did not help her

I never said he didn't help  here, all I'm saying is... An insult is still an insult... The situation is equal to a white prider calling a black man a dumb nigger then helping him because of a self degrading quip he makes.

Jesus was prejudice any way you spin it.



Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:

I repeat what I said before:

"You clearly don't have much experience with the mentally ill."

I gave you the term for people that don't want to eat food at all: "mentally induced anorexia". Lots of people don't want to eat any food. Whilst the reasoning may be different the psychological and physical effects are the same.

When you go to the doctor can they always help you? We're still discovering causes and treatments for mental (and metabolic and biological for that matter) disease all the time. Doctors do the best they can at the time, but they can't cure everyone with every disease. The past is filled with poorly thought or misunderstood diseases and treatments. Just because they couldn't cure her doesn't mean it can be attributed to demonic possesion.

Look at the underlined, she refused treatment at the time for epilepsy. A relatively common problem that even today has no cure and is no way attributable to demonic possesion. This coupled with the fact that she wasn't eating shows she had significant mental health problems. In this day and age she'd probably be forced to have treatment as she was a danger to herself as she wasn't eating. Back then they got away with it.

If this was to happen today, it'd be considerred the priests fault for not ensuring she received proper medical attention and to a lesser extent social services for not correctly assesing her properly.


i see...still doesnt explain why she didnt want to drink holy water and couldnt get pass by icon of Jesus Christ, and start seeing demons every time she was praying, and eating bugs and spiders and started speajing some un-human language that only priests with very high biblical and relgious education could understand( go check it out on youtube)

All sounds like deep rooted psychological problems to me. Doctors these days would probably be able to give a better diagnosis than they did back then.


Or maybe demonic possesion???

Of which there is no evidence. Logically, there's more evidence supporting psychological problems (especially when others exhibit similar symptoms) than for demonic posession.

is visual evidence the only evidence that satisfies you people? Stop finding excuses and telling yourself" "maybe she had a pscychological problems".Pscychological problems of that kind dont just apper like that out of nowhere. They have roots and reasons. Why is it so hard for you to accept the fact that she was possesed?



pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:

All sounds like deep rooted psychological problems to me. Doctors these days would probably be able to give a better diagnosis than they did back then.


Or maybe demonic possesion???

Of which there is no evidence. Logically, there's more evidence supporting psychological problems (especially when others exhibit similar symptoms) than for demonic posession.

is visual evidence the only evidence that satisfies you people? Stop finding excuses and telling yourself" "maybe she had a pscychological problems".Pscychological problems of that kind dont just apper like that out of nowhere. They have roots and reasons. Why is it so hard for you to accept the fact that she was possesed?

There's no maybe about it, she had psychological problems. Again, many roots and reasons can be attributed to her psychological problems, and demonic possession would feature as last on a very long list. Why is it so hard for you to accept demonic possesion is incredibly unlikely? For one thing you have to prove the existence of a "demonic or supernatural" entity, which in itself has never been done.

Why are you so quick to jump to ridiculous assumptions in the face of logic and reason? Surely logic and reason should be looked to before making assumptions and turning to the occult and unknown.

And what do you mean by visual evidence? There was NO evidence in this case, visual or otherwise. I haven't read any detailed reports of a psychological assesment, nothing audio, visual or chemical about the room she stayed in and obviously in that day and age they didn't have the ability to do brain scans.

Lastly, just because you say something is fact doesn't make it so. You need evidence to back up a claim, and nothing you've presented is evidence.



Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:

All sounds like deep rooted psychological problems to me. Doctors these days would probably be able to give a better diagnosis than they did back then.


Or maybe demonic possesion???

Of which there is no evidence. Logically, there's more evidence supporting psychological problems (especially when others exhibit similar symptoms) than for demonic posession.

is visual evidence the only evidence that satisfies you people? Stop finding excuses and telling yourself" "maybe she had a pscychological problems".Pscychological problems of that kind dont just apper like that out of nowhere. They have roots and reasons. Why is it so hard for you to accept the fact that she was possesed?

There's no maybe about it, she had psychological problems. Again, many roots and reasons can be attributed to her psychological problems, and demonic possession would feature as last on a very long list. Why is it so hard for you to accept demonic possesion is incredibly unlikely? For one thing you have to prove the existence of a "demonic or supernatural" entity, which in itself has never been done.

Why are you so quick to jump to ridiculous assumptions in the face of logic and reason? Surely logic and reason should be looked to before making assumptions and turning to the occult and unknown.

And what do you mean by visual evidence? There was NO evidence in this case, visual or otherwise. I haven't read any detailed reports of a psychological assesment, nothing audio, visual or chemical about the room she stayed in and obviously in that day and age they didn't have the ability to do brain scans.

Lastly, just because you say something is fact doesn't make it so. You need evidence to back up a claim, and nothing you've presented is evidence.


More evidance:

 

http://www.wackyowl.com/5-notable-examples-demonic-possession-exorcism/

 

Care to explain how people can change their voices, speak demonic langluages (that are proved to be real by priests), make people levitating vertically and horizontally, kill thier family for no reason, and sometimes, when priest speaks the prayers, the bizzare behavior strangely stops?

Dont worry, Im sure you'll come up with some psycho thing that explains how people can fly...