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Forums - General Discussion - Where would the world be right now if religion never existed?

pizzahut451 said:

So what word do the psychologists use for the state when you dont wanna eat food AT ALL ???? And how coe doctors and psychologists wernt able to help her???

After years of unsuccessful psychiatric treatments, they gave up on medical treatment and chose to rely solely on the exorcisms for healing.[2] The rites of exorcism were performed over the course of about ten months in 1976.. Though she had received treatment for epilepsy, by this time, at her own request, doctors were no longer being consulted.[2] This was because Anneliese mentioned the "demons" to the doctors, explaining that they started to give her orders.[1] The doctors seemed unable to help, and Anneliese lost hope that medicine was going to be able to cure her.[1]

Doctors aren't able to cure everything. Plus, from personal experience, I've noticed that in the case of psychological issues one must fully cooperate with the psychologist/psychiatrist and truly want to get better. This girl attributed her illness to demon possession and probably never fully cooperated with the speicalists trying to help her.

As for the not eating food part, seriously man, haven't you ever heard of eating disorders?

The reason doctors weren't able to help her was because they couldn't find the cause of her illness. Maybe they didn't have the necessary resources to find out what she had. Maybe the child's religious parents were disrupting the treatment. We don't have that much info about this.

Haven't you ever noticed that it's only religious people that get possessed by demons? And why is it that these religious people always seem to get possessed by things that they were taught to fear? Couldn't it be that when mental illness strikes these people, it takes the form of what they fear the most?



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maybe the muslums wouldnt hate the west for a 100 years of killing them and conquering their land during the crusades



I Hate the fact that all these pillows are contaminated by retard!!

It clearly says that she HERSELF REFUSED TO EAT.  And tell me, why was she seeing demons everytime she was praying? And why couldnt she stand the holy water? And why did the icon of Jesus upset her so much?

Honestly man... you're asking me to make sense of an insane person's thinking? The fact that she refused to eat is nothing exceptional (just an eationg disorder).

Seing demons when praying? = hallucinations (thefact that they were demons was probably because that's what she was most scarred of and that's what she expected to see).

Why did the icon of Jesus upset her? = again, she thought she was possessed.

Have you ever heard of OCD? Well I have it. OCD affects your life in a very negative manner. And it is a mental illness I guess. When I used to be religious I'd be afraid that I'd do something terrible/sacrilegious and upset God. Due to my OCD this became an obssession, and sometimes when, for example, I'd see an icon of Jesus I'd find myself having bad thoughts about him (precisely because I was obssessively afriad that I'd have such thoughts), so I'd often avoid looking at an icon, afraid that I'd have those thoughts and anger God.

The Flat-Earth was just one of the examples. How about the time when people scinectis thought that atom was the smallest unit of matter on eath until they broke it and found lots of smaller parts in it (electron, patron and neutron)????

There's no way that those scientists could've known that there was something smaller than the atom without the necessary technology to do the research. The beauty of science is that it's suspectible to change and improvement. Science doesn't have all the answers, but it's pupose is finding them.

The term supernatural or supranatural (Latin: super, supra "above" natura "nature") pertains to being above or beyond what one holds to be natural. In the case of one who has strong scientific and atheist beliefs, the supernatural is anything unexplainable by natural law or phenomena.

Supernatural things only exist in fiction. There are lot's of things that science doesn't know yet. Lot's of things that were considered supernatural once are today considered perfectly natural. Nothing goes against the laws of nature, but it's ridiculous to say that scientists know everything there is not know about nature. Just because we don't know the explanation now, doesn't mean it can't be explained. If it is actually real, then it can be explained.

Such beliefs have existed in many( if not all) cultures throughout human history, and no science can reject that.

Don't think anyone's rejecting the fact that people used to beleive all kinds on nonsense.

Are you saying that all our human civilizations and culutres wre dumb and ignorannt, just because there is no phiysical or visual evidence of anything supernatural???

Of course I's saying that. People used to believe that if you dom't regularly sacrifice virgins the sun won't come up and that if you don't keep your mouth shut during sex the child concieved won't be a boy. They used to think that earthquakes were supernatural and a punishment from the deities they worshipped. People back then were dumb and ignorant. Thankfully lots of them have samrtened up.

Well guess what, thre is no physicall or visual evidence of a huan thought either, that doesnt mean its not real.

The fact that you managed to write these certainly indicates that you can think.

But like i said, you have a total lack of faith, so me here trying to prove you  that supernatural (or paranormal) things are real is a waste of time. I dont know why i replayed to your post in the first place, ic guess i was bored, lol.

LOL... this is similar to what I said in another thread sometime ago. Sorry for not being dumb and ignorant enough to be convinced by your arguments.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

in a very good place



myths n legends said:

or if some religions are correct we may not even exist


THIS! Cuz I'm a believer!



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pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:

You clearly don't have much experience with the mentally ill. 

Btw, also in the same wiki article it actually states the cause of her death:

"On July 1, 1976, Anneliese Michel died in her sleep. The autopsy report stated that her death resulted from the malnutrition and dehydration due to almost a year of semi-starvation during which time the rites of exorcism were also performed.[4]"

Starvation, dehydration and mentally induced anorexia are well known to Psychologists.

So what word do the psychologists use for the state when you dont wanna eat food AT ALL ???? And how coe doctors and psychologists wernt able to help her???

After years of unsuccessful psychiatric treatments, they gave up on medical treatment and chose to rely solely on the exorcisms for healing.[2] The rites of exorcism were performed over the course of about ten months in 1976.. Though she had received treatment for epilepsy, by this time, at her own request, doctors were no longer being consulted.[2] This was because Anneliese mentioned the "demons" to the doctors, explaining that they started to give her orders.[1] The doctors seemed unable to help, and Anneliese lost hope that medicine was going to be able to cure her.[1]

I repeat what I said before:

"You clearly don't have much experience with the mentally ill."

I gave you the term for people that don't want to eat food at all: "mentally induced anorexia". Lots of people don't want to eat any food. Whilst the reasoning may be different the psychological and physical effects are the same.

When you go to the doctor can they always help you? We're still discovering causes and treatments for mental (and metabolic and biological for that matter) disease all the time. Doctors do the best they can at the time, but they can't cure everyone with every disease. The past is filled with poorly thought or misunderstood diseases and treatments. Just because they couldn't cure her doesn't mean it can be attributed to demonic possesion.

Look at the underlined, she refused treatment at the time for epilepsy. A relatively common problem that even today has no cure and is no way attributable to demonic possesion. This coupled with the fact that she wasn't eating shows she had significant mental health problems. In this day and age she'd probably be forced to have treatment as she was a danger to herself as she wasn't eating. Back then they got away with it.

If this was to happen today, it'd be considerred the priests fault for not ensuring she received proper medical attention and to a lesser extent social services for not correctly assesing her properly.



sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:

So what word do the psychologists use for the state when you dont wanna eat food AT ALL ???? And how coe doctors and psychologists wernt able to help her???

After years of unsuccessful psychiatric treatments, they gave up on medical treatment and chose to rely solely on the exorcisms for healing.[2] The rites of exorcism were performed over the course of about ten months in 1976.. Though she had received treatment for epilepsy, by this time, at her own request, doctors were no longer being consulted.[2] This was because Anneliese mentioned the "demons" to the doctors, explaining that they started to give her orders.[1] The doctors seemed unable to help, and Anneliese lost hope that medicine was going to be able to cure her.[1]

Doctors aren't able to cure everything. Plus, from personal experience, I've noticed that in the case of psychological issues one must fully cooperate with the psychologist/psychiatrist and truly want to get better. This girl attributed her illness to demon possession and probably never fully cooperated with the speicalists trying to help her.

As for the not eating food part, seriously man, haven't you ever heard of eating disorders?

The reason doctors weren't able to help her was because they couldn't find the cause of her illness. Maybe they didn't have the necessary resources to find out what she had. Maybe the child's religious parents were disrupting the treatment. We don't have that much info about this.

Haven't you ever noticed that it's only religious people that get possessed by demons? And why is it that these religious people always seem to get possessed by things that they were taught to fear? Couldn't it be that when mental illness strikes these people, it takes the form of what they fear the most?

dude, stop qouting me, im done talking to you. Whatever i tell you, whatever i show you, its all useless because you have a total lack faith and total lack of spirit.



Ok, argument's over.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Jesus was testing her faith and making a statement to his disciples that no matter what race she was that they should help everyone (back in that time anyone other than jews were called dogs) she had alot of faith and answered that even dogs eat the crumbs from the table.......jesus liked her faith and healed her daughter......

 

please read the entire story before saying he did not help her



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Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:

You clearly don't have much experience with the mentally ill. 

Btw, also in the same wiki article it actually states the cause of her death:

"On July 1, 1976, Anneliese Michel died in her sleep. The autopsy report stated that her death resulted from the malnutrition and dehydration due to almost a year of semi-starvation during which time the rites of exorcism were also performed.[4]"

Starvation, dehydration and mentally induced anorexia are well known to Psychologists.

So what word do the psychologists use for the state when you dont wanna eat food AT ALL ???? And how coe doctors and psychologists wernt able to help her???

After years of unsuccessful psychiatric treatments, they gave up on medical treatment and chose to rely solely on the exorcisms for healing.[2] The rites of exorcism were performed over the course of about ten months in 1976.. Though she had received treatment for epilepsy, by this time, at her own request, doctors were no longer being consulted.[2] This was because Anneliese mentioned the "demons" to the doctors, explaining that they started to give her orders.[1] The doctors seemed unable to help, and Anneliese lost hope that medicine was going to be able to cure her.[1]

I repeat what I said before:

"You clearly don't have much experience with the mentally ill."

I gave you the term for people that don't want to eat food at all: "mentally induced anorexia". Lots of people don't want to eat any food. Whilst the reasoning may be different the psychological and physical effects are the same.

When you go to the doctor can they always help you? We're still discovering causes and treatments for mental (and metabolic and biological for that matter) disease all the time. Doctors do the best they can at the time, but they can't cure everyone with every disease. The past is filled with poorly thought or misunderstood diseases and treatments. Just because they couldn't cure her doesn't mean it can be attributed to demonic possesion.

Look at the underlined, she refused treatment at the time for epilepsy. A relatively common problem that even today has no cure and is no way attributable to demonic possesion. This coupled with the fact that she wasn't eating shows she had significant mental health problems. In this day and age she'd probably be forced to have treatment as she was a danger to herself as she wasn't eating. Back then they got away with it.

If this was to happen today, it'd be considerred the priests fault for not ensuring she received proper medical attention and to a lesser extent social services for not correctly assesing her properly.


i see...still doesnt explain why she didnt want to drink holy water and couldnt get pass by icon of Jesus Christ, and start seeing demons every time she was praying, and eating bugs and spiders and started speajing some un-human language that only priests with very high biblical and relgious education could understand( go check it out on youtube)