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Forums - General Discussion - Where would the world be right now if religion never existed?

sapphi_snake said:

Schizophrenia doesnt make you do those all those horrible stuff i mentioned before...

Dude, haven't you ever heard of that theory that when people tell a story, the more they tell it (or the more the story is transmited orally form person to person), the more the story is deformed and is likely to gain outlandish details. Hack, every time I tell something that happened to me I sprouse things up a little to make the story more interesting.

In my country, there was this case of a demon possesion of a nun in a monastery. Turns out that she was a schizophrenic that escaped from the mental institution and became  a nun. And igonrant monk (or priest, can't remembar what the jerk was) and some stupid nuns performed an "exorxcism" on her, and the lady died (she was abducted, tied to a bed, and starved to death; they didn't even give her water). The outrageous part was not their immense stupidity, but the fact that they got away, thanks to the efforts of the stupid corrupt Church and the fact that peopel in my country are religious and believe all kinds of superstitious crap.

The case with Anneliese Michale was diffrent. She refused to drink Holy Water even thogh she was catholic and when she passed by the icon of Jesus Christ she was getting upset. Not to mention she eat her own arm...

i really dont even wanna start a debate on demonic possesions, its so terrible to even think about it...

This line made me LOL. How old are you? 'Cause you sure seem adorably naive and innocent to write something like this.

Im not. I just dont wanna talk about anything like that. Its wrong IMO.

And there is a diffrence between indian burial grounds and regular cemetaries.

I'm well aware of that.

My mom told that once she saw a woman in the the white gloving dress in the middle of the night walking. But there was something wierd with the way she walked. Her feet didnt touch the ground, it was like she was flying about 50cm in the air. The woman then went behind a tree and and just disappeared without a trace.  No one ever saw her again,

I think your mom should go see a specialist. this is worrying. Got any more details aboutthis story?

She wasnt the only one who saw that woman. 5 of her friends who were with her saw it too. And some other people in town as well, so dont tell me my mom is nuts, because lots of other people saw  that woman too.

The Jasper thing was a typo.

I'm sure Casper forgives you for mistyping his name. After all, he is a friendly kind of ghost.

And you didnt asnwer my question. Do you even believe in any paranormal activity whatsoever?

Sorry, didn't notice you asked me that. My answer is: NO, I don't beleive that anything is "paranormal". If something is (by this I mean exists, is real), then it's "normal". Some things have yet to be explained, and I'm sure scientist or someone will find an explanation for them in the future. These things might also have something to do with that DMT substance in the brain that causes hallucinations (somebody mentioned it on another topic).

well than, theres absolutly no need for me to continiue this discussion, is it? I can  see you that have total lack of faith for anything that science doesnt agree with. Did you know that 300 years ago, the smartes people of this world thought the Earht was flat and not round? Science has been wrong multiple times already, and  their theories are not always right.

Personally I've never witnessed any paranormal situations, but I've heard others relate such situations (most of the time it was something thet heard from a friend, who hear it from another friend, who learned it from a roomante's friend... you get the drift).





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Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
WessleWoggle said:
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:

 

You talk of rubbish such as "souls"and "breath of life" and "spirit', as if they were facts. Please present proof that this nonsense is a "fact".

 

 

Wow, you really dont believe in souls??? Seriously now?? I can see how someone can not believe in God or jesus or heaven but how can man not believe in soul???

 

Also, existance of a human soul is a PROVEN FACT.

A fact huh? Unless you're talking about that study they did when they figured out a minute amount of weight leaves the body upon death(this study is flawed btw)... There's no proof for a human soul.

Ghosts (souls who have not yet found peace,their appearances are proven to be real) are also souls, you know...its something inside of you that lives forever even  after you die. Seriously, do you really believe that after you die, lights out and you become food for worms? Wow, your probably gonna get really depressed once you get old

Ghosts? Really? That's your answer? Ghosts have been proven to be real? I did not know that.


Not ghosts as in ''white spooks'' like Jasper, more like souls or spirits of dead people. As for ''evidence of ghosts, go spend the few nights night at the indian burial ground and see if theres any ''spooky'' things around. Or go watch the movie ''Paranormal Activity''. Or how about numerous demonic possesions that have occured in human history??  Do you believe in any kind of paranormal activity at all?

That's not evidence, it's a personal experience which can vary from person to person. I've been to "paranormal" places and spent the night where nothing has happened and spent nights in castles that were supposedly haunted. Nothing happened. Been to a grave-yards and seen some weird stuff in my time too but I'd never suggest any of it was evidence as it's all personal to me. Until you can actually measure and show a ghostly presence (and not silly audio sounds that could be attributable to anything), you're not convincing anyone.

Also, demonic possesions have rational explainations whether it's mental illness or chemically induced hallucinations from the flora and fauna of an area.

And Paranormal Activity wasn't based on a true story, in fact it had multiple endings.

I never said that if you go to the graveyard  or any ''haunted'' place at nights you're necceary gonna see a ghost. Pay attention on what i exactly said in my post.

And yes , mental illnes makes you speak the un-human language and bite off your own arm and likc your own urine and later DIE...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Michel

 

 

Yes, it can. What's your point?

And my point still stands, nothing you've presented is evidence. All personal experience that's not going to convince anyone.

Mental illnes makes YOU DIE??? I though it only makes you crazy( its CALLED MENTAL ILLNES)



If there was no religion, I know for myself I wouldnt be as good of a person as I try to be now...

Many people quickly mock religion and think people who have religious beliefs are stupid etc but my religion teaches me to love everyone as God loves me...dont hold grudges or have hatred for anyone in your heart...forgive others as God will forgive you...keep peace in your heart and live a good moral and ethical life...help others every chance you get...

now what is so wrong in believing in this and practicing this? are you telling me that without this being apart of my life my life would and the whole world would be better? 

i dont think so...

my religion based on Jesus and God is not flawed in anyway Jesus did not bring any hate into this world and taught us to love everyone....the problem is the way people perceive religion

so one can not put blame on religion itself but how it is interpreted 



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The case with Anneliese Michale was diffrent. She refused to drink Holy Water even thogh she was catholic and when she passed by the icon of Jesus Christ she was getting upset. Not to mention she eat her own arm...

I've searched information about that case and it didn't say anywhere that she ate her own arm (though of she did it might have been 'cause she was hungry and desperate, after all they did starve her to death and didn't give her water), Also psychiatrists said that she suffered from induced psychisis (she attributed her illeness to demon possession and those priests were spewing nonsense and influencing her).

well than, theres absolutly no need for me to continiue this discussion, is it? I can  see you that have total lack of faith for anything that science doesnt agree with. Did you know that 300 years ago, the smartes people of this world thought the Earht was flat and not round? Science has been wrong multiple times already, and  their theories are not always right.

The fact that the world is sphere-shaped was known since the Egyptians (recent actually show that the Earth is an elipsoid, but this was impossible to find out without footage from space). Those smart people that you talk about also answered to the Church. If the power'hungry Church hadn't gotten in everyone's business maybe scientists wouldn't have been so afriad to say something contrary to Church teachings and be labled heretics.

Plus I said I beleive that everything that exists is natural and that supernatural things don't exist If Big Foot or the Chubacapra exist, then they're just some rare animals, not supernatural beings. If ghosts really do exist then they're perfectly natural too. I've never seen a ghost, nor has it ever been proven that ghosts exist.

People often experience things they can't explain. Lots of people give supernatural made-up explanations instead of thinking logically (like that German girl that thought she was possessed). Have you ever seen an episode of Grey's Anatomy, or of House? Those shows often feature people that have unexplained conditions. It turns out that thorough research is required to find out what they have, and often they have very rare conditions that doctors don;t even think about. There was a Grey's Anatomy episode guest starring Demi Lovato last season that had a similar case (I beleive it was called Shiny Happy People). Doctors and sicetists don't know everything. They don't have the necessary technology to know everyuthing. There's still a lot to be discovered in medicine and science, and the great thing about these fields is that there's always room for improvement and change, unlike blindly dogmatic fields based on supernatural and irational beliefs and wastefull interpretations of amiguous written texts. The mistake is to assume that they know everything, and if they don't they should be discredited.



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                                                                               (pizzahut451)

pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:

I never said that if you go to the graveyard  or any ''haunted'' place at nights you're necceary gonna see a ghost. Pay attention on what i exactly said in my post.

And yes , mental illnes makes you speak the un-human language and bite off your own arm and likc your own urine and later DIE...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Michel

 

 

Yes, it can. What's your point?

And my point still stands, nothing you've presented is evidence. All personal experience that's not going to convince anyone.

Mental illnes makes YOU DIE??? I though it only makes you crazy( its CALLED MENTAL ILLNES)

You clearly don't have much experience with the mentally ill. 

Btw, also in the same wiki article it actually states the cause of her death:

"On July 1, 1976, Anneliese Michel died in her sleep. The autopsy report stated that her death resulted from the malnutrition and dehydration due to almost a year of semi-starvation during which time the rites of exorcism were also performed.[4]"

Starvation, dehydration and mentally induced anorexia are well known to Psychologists.



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aher052 said:

my religion based on Jesus and God is not flawed in anyway Jesus did not bring any hate into this world and taught us to love everyone....the problem is the way people perceive religion

 

 


Except for that part of the bible where he ignores a canaanite women and calls her a dog?



pizzahut451 said:

well than, theres absolutly no need for me to continiue this discussion, is it? I can  see you that have total lack of faith for anything that science doesnt agree with. Did you know that 300 years ago, the smartes people of this world thought the Earht was flat and not round? Science has been wrong multiple times already, and  their theories are not always right.



I'm pretty sure they knew the earth was a sphere. There's ancient statues of the greek God Atlas holding up a sphere...



alot better place to live no doubt...



sapphi_snake said:

The case with Anneliese Michale was diffrent. She refused to drink Holy Water even thogh she was catholic and when she passed by the icon of Jesus Christ she was getting upset. Not to mention she eat her own arm...

I've searched information about that case and it didn't say anywhere that she ate her own arm (though of she did it might have been 'cause she was hungry and desperate, after all they did starve her to death and didn't give her water), Also psychiatrists said that she suffered from induced psychisis (she attributed her illeness to demon possession and those priests were spewing nonsense and influencing her).

 

It clearly says that she HERSELF REFUSED TO EAT.  And tell me, why was she seeing demons everytime she was praying? And why couldnt she stand the holy water? And why did the icon of Jesus upset her so much?

well than, theres absolutly no need for me to continiue this discussion, is it? I can  see you that have total lack of faith for anything that science doesnt agree with. Did you know that 300 years ago, the smartes people of this world thought the Earht was flat and not round? Science has been wrong multiple times already, and  their theories are not always right.

The fact that the world is sphere-shaped was known since the Egyptians (recent actually show that the Earth is an elipsoid, but this was impossible to find out without footage from space). Those smart people that you talk about also answered to the Church. If the power'hungry Church hadn't gotten in everyone's business maybe scientists wouldn't have been so afriad to say something contrary to Church teachings and be labled heretics.

The Flat-Earth was just one of the examples. How about the time when people scinectis thought that atom was the smallest unit of matter on eath until they broke it and found lots of smaller parts in it (electron, patron and neutron)????

Plus I said I beleive that everything that exists is natural and that supernatural things don't exist If Big Foot or the Chubacapra exist, then they're just some rare animals, not supernatural beings. If ghosts really do exist then they're perfectly natural too. I've never seen a ghost, nor has it ever been proven that ghosts exist.

The term supernatural or supranatural (Latin: super, supra "above" natura "nature") pertains to being above or beyond what one holds to be natural. In the case of one who has strong scientific and atheist beliefs, the supernatural is anything unexplainable by natural law or phenomena.   And Chubacapara is nothing supernatural. Its some rare animal. A ghost, for an example is supernatural, because science cant explain it.  Such beliefs have existed in many( if not all) cultures throughout human history, and no science can reject that. Are you saying that all our human civilizations and culutres wre dumb and ignorannt, just because there is no phiysical or visual evidence of anything supernatural??? Well guess what, thre is no physicall or visual evidence of a huan thought either, that doesnt mean its not real. But like i said, you have a total lack of faith, so me here trying to prove you  that supernatural (or paranormal) things are real is a waste of time. I dont know why i replayed to your post in the first place, ic guess i was bored, lol.

People often experience things they can't explain. Lots of people give supernatural made-up explanations instead of thinking logically (like that German girl that thought she was possessed). Have you ever seen an episode of Grey's Anatomy, or of House? Those shows often feature people that have unexplained conditions. It turns out that thorough research is required to find out what they have, and often they have very rare conditions that doctors don;t even think about. There was a Grey's Anatomy episode guest starring Demi Lovato last season that had a similar case (I beleive it was called Shiny Happy People). Doctors and sicetists don't know everything. They don't have the necessary technology to know everyuthing. There's still a lot to be discovered in medicine and science, and the great thing about these fields is that there's always room for improvement and change, unlike blindly dogmatic fields based on supernatural and irational beliefs and wastefull interpretations of amiguous written texts. The mistake is to assume that they know everything, and if they don't they should be discredited.





Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:
Scoobes said:
pizzahut451 said:

I never said that if you go to the graveyard  or any ''haunted'' place at nights you're necceary gonna see a ghost. Pay attention on what i exactly said in my post.

And yes , mental illnes makes you speak the un-human language and bite off your own arm and likc your own urine and later DIE...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Michel

 

 

Yes, it can. What's your point?

And my point still stands, nothing you've presented is evidence. All personal experience that's not going to convince anyone.

Mental illnes makes YOU DIE??? I though it only makes you crazy( its CALLED MENTAL ILLNES)

You clearly don't have much experience with the mentally ill. 

Btw, also in the same wiki article it actually states the cause of her death:

"On July 1, 1976, Anneliese Michel died in her sleep. The autopsy report stated that her death resulted from the malnutrition and dehydration due to almost a year of semi-starvation during which time the rites of exorcism were also performed.[4]"

Starvation, dehydration and mentally induced anorexia are well known to Psychologists.

So what word do the psychologists use for the state when you dont wanna eat food AT ALL ???? And how coe doctors and psychologists wernt able to help her???

After years of unsuccessful psychiatric treatments, they gave up on medical treatment and chose to rely solely on the exorcisms for healing.[2] The rites of exorcism were performed over the course of about ten months in 1976.. Though she had received treatment for epilepsy, by this time, at her own request, doctors were no longer being consulted.[2] This was because Anneliese mentioned the "demons" to the doctors, explaining that they started to give her orders.[1] The doctors seemed unable to help, and Anneliese lost hope that medicine was going to be able to cure her.[1]