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The reason Star Citizen will take forever to make

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Areaz32 said:
Chazore said: Reading it like that makes it sound like a complete waste, and that they either have to focus on one aspect, or just do everything completely from scratch all over again.

I'm looking at the game and asking myself "why can't all the other AAA games put this amount of effort into their worlds/visual fidelity?".

It is actually a resource thing. It depends on how many people, how much time, how talented, money, etc.

As to your second point, I don't think it's true that other AAA games aren't doing this(don't know if that was what you meant).

I would argue that RDR2 and Naughty Dog games are there in terms of putting this amount of care and detail into their environments, but Naughty Dog does it very linearly and Rockstar has lower quality in terms of rendering of objects up-close.

Star Citizen is trying to do both, but at the same time not doing it better than those two as a consequence. 

The big difference is, the other games actually release after 5 years. SC is trying to do all at once and as a consequence has many smaller working elements that don't come together yet as one big game. In SC's case, the whole is smaller than the sum of its parts.



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SvennoJ said:
Areaz32 said:

It is actually a resource thing. It depends on how many people, how much time, how talented, money, etc.

As to your second point, I don't think it's true that other AAA games aren't doing this(don't know if that was what you meant).

I would argue that RDR2 and Naughty Dog games are there in terms of putting this amount of care and detail into their environments, but Naughty Dog does it very linearly and Rockstar has lower quality in terms of rendering of objects up-close.

Star Citizen is trying to do both, but at the same time not doing it better than those two as a consequence. 

The big difference is, the other games actually release after 5 years. SC is trying to do all at once and as a consequence has many smaller working elements that don't come together yet as one big game. In SC's case, the whole is smaller than the sum of its parts.

Rockstar and Naughty dog already had fully functioning dev teams before starting those games. Not to mention that their creating their games on the back of previous games. Anywho what SC is trying to accomplish has never been done before so it stands to reason it would take longer than most AAA games.



Areaz32 said:
Chazore said: Reading it like that makes it sound like a complete waste, and that they either have to focus on one aspect, or just do everything completely from scratch all over again.

I'm looking at the game and asking myself "why can't all the other AAA games put this amount of effort into their worlds/visual fidelity?".

It is actually a resource thing. It depends on how many people, how much time, how talented, money, etc.

As to your second point, I don't think it's true that other AAA games aren't doing this(don't know if that was what you meant).

I would argue that RDR2 and Naughty Dog games are there in terms of putting this amount of care and detail into their environments, but Naughty Dog does it very linearly and Rockstar has lower quality in terms of rendering of objects up-close.

Star Citizen is trying to do both, but at the same time not doing it better than those two as a consequence. 

Yeah, but at the same time, you made it sound like the talent they already had, was worth next to nothing, as well as the tech and resources put behind it, because you basically compared it to current gen games, and made it out like next gen games are somehow going to "easily" surpass what SC is trying to do (entirely based around said hw specs of next gen systems, but we've all been down this road before with current gen, and last gen even).

I think it is, because you see a nice vista in RDR2, I see an empty world with a few NPC's attached to a few nodes, that activate whenever you enter a vicinity. There are still invisible walls or areas that prevent you from transverse hundreds of miles, while in a game like SC it's so much more bigger than what we've had in all the AAA games we've had this gen alone. It comes with worlds that contain much more land that your average Battlefield map, or RDR2 even, and yes, they are doing some generated content, as well as hand crafted to go along with it, which is better than the usual typical places we see in worlds like RDR1/2 and GTA/Witcher and typical RPG's.

I don't really see the others as being on their level, not in terms of raw visual fidelity and animations for multiple objects, physics and all sorts of other actions you can do within that game. R* has a terrible moniker for not rendering details and objects as far as 3-5 meters, shadows and all, which is just not acceptable. They also have some of the worst AI I've seen, hell most AAA's do these days, in terms of actual intelligence.

SC is doing what the other two are not. It's trying to make a fleshed out SP game, as well as an open world galaxy for people to make their way in. Amounting it to nothing, because it's not copying ND, or R* is honestly narrow minded, and I'd really hope they never follow your viewpoint on how games should be made.  

I want to see vast worlds, filled with actual meaning and purpose to them, not "hand crafted" vistas, where I cannot interact with each leaf, or vine, let alone destroy a part of it, or even travel towards it in the distance. We've seen so much of that this gen, that it's left me with a hallow feeling when it comes to AAA games, because most of the time it's just one big fancy looking prop, with very little meaning behind it.

I actually want AI to vastly improve next gen, tenfold even, and I honestly don't care if it's not "following" ND or R*, because those two are not the godlike masters of everything either, and they have a lot to improve upon themselves. 



                                       

Areaz32 said:
SvennoJ said:
They'll have to start over soon to rebuild the engine for ray tracing, 8K and dynamic HDR.
It's quickly becoming a last gen experience in the making.

While I don't think they have to rebuild their engine for ray tracing, I do agree that the assets they are using and the quality of their rendering isn't outshining anything current in terms of graphical fidelity and artistry. The most impressive part is the consistency and scale which outmatches everything we have seen. But depending on the game, that alone doesn't matter much at all. I am personally more impressed by the large vistas in RDR2 or just the character models and gun models we saw in the latest TLOUpt2 footage. I expect next-gen to look better than Star Citizen does now, almost universally. Maybe Star Citizen is a "this gen.5" in some respects. A jack of all trades but not a master of all trades.

Have you played it? It looks absolutely gorgeous at 4k, definitely a next-gen leading title that brings down even high-end GPU's today... And the scope is breathtaking, if you don't have an SSD... Don't bother playing the game.

Digital Foundry also agrees as well.



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Chazore said: Yeah, but at the same time, you made it sound like the talent they already had, was worth next to nothing, as well as the tech and resources put behind it, because you basically compared it to current gen games, and made it out like next gen games are somehow going to "easily" surpass what SC is trying to do (entirely based around said hw specs of next gen systems, but we've all been down this road before with current gen, and last gen even).

I never ever said anything to that effect ever. I just said that what they have accomplished is not up to par with what those two games are specializing in, yet. I just think that AAA games are generally going to look up to par or better not because of leaked hardware specs, but because of what I have seen in being pioneered in games currently.

Star Citizen has worse lighting than Control.

Star Citizen has worse character models, and character doodad models than The Last of Us part II. TLOUpt2 is also better when it comes to visual physics (not gameplay physics) and animations.

Star Citizen has worse "variety and density of detail" in the distance compared to RDR2.

Those are observations I have made from following this game for years and even to this day. I was just pointing out specific areas where they aren't doing it better. It is your subjective opinion that you think it is all a waste as a consequence.

I never stated that they should copy anyone, nor did I say Rockstar and Naughty Dog are infallible gods. I didn't say it was in vain. That is all something you made up.

Pemalite said:

Have you played it? It looks absolutely gorgeous at 4k, definitely a next-gen leading title that brings down even high-end GPU's today... And the scope is breathtaking, if you don't have an SSD... Don't bother playing the game.

Digital Foundry also agrees as well.

Yes, I have played it and yes I have an SSD :)

The scope is also what I talked up as outmatching everything else. The consistency in detail is staggering. My point was just that I can find elements in the presentation done better elsewhere. 



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It's more like a proof of concept than an actual game



eva01beserk said:
vivster said:
While it is really annoying it also is kinda admiring. There is nothing wrong with taking forever on a game but they just have the luxury that basically no other game has and that is a seemingly endless flow of money before it's even released. Though it really does make me wonder what's gonna happen after release. It's gonna be a huge game and will need some manpower to maintain it and I'm correctly assuming that the producers are already way too used by the constant money flow. While I don't think they'll go as far as gambling I do expect quite aggressive monetization.

dont they already sell ships for ridiculous amounts of money? 

Yeah, they're already setting a bad precedent by charging huge sums without even having a game attached to it. I will not be surprised if they ever sell ships that cost thousands. Not sure how sustainable that will be though. They'll probably want micro transactions too.

Unless of course this is a dream and they somehow have rich sponsors that pump them full of money for the passion. I mean if I was rich I'd totally do that.



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star citizen is the biggest scam in gaming



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really miss the VGCHARTZ of 2008 - 2013...

Star Citizen just seems to be a bottomless money pit at this point. It really makes the case for having publishers watching over their shoulders, as much as I dislike a lot of them.



A brief summary of the shown progress:


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Just an ad for a spaceship within SC, but if the SQ42 cutscenes have the same quality, I'll be happy:


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With Quantum they are creating an impressive tool to manage that dynamic universe:


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A helpful tuturial for the first space trip in the SC universe:


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And here is the full keynote of CitizenCon 2019:


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