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Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

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the-pi-guy said:
Snoopy said:

They are criminals, thus should be locked in jail.

Even if you say they are criminals*, criminals are still people.

(*the crime of going somewhere you aren't allowed, I don't exactly consider that to be a hardcore crime...)

Yeah, but stealing money, dealing drugs and hurting someone is, which is what illegal immigrants do all the time.



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Snoopy said:
the-pi-guy said:

You can start by considering illegal immigrants as people, and see where that takes you.  

They are criminals, thus should be locked in jail.

I mean if anyone who commits a crime is a criminal then most everyone deserves jail time. I assume you don't think everyone who gets a traffic infraction should be in jail. Unless there's something special about illegal border crossing that you think makes it a jailable offense beyond the overly simplistic and almost childish "it's a crime". 

Finally, let's say they are criminals, if they're sick should we just leave them to die or should we treat them? Because that's what "considering illegal immigrants as people" means; not letting them die. 



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Snoopy said:
the-pi-guy said:

Even if you say they are criminals*, criminals are still people.

(*the crime of going somewhere you aren't allowed, I don't exactly consider that to be a hardcore crime...)

Yeah, but stealing money, dealing drugs and hurting someone is, which is what illegal immigrants do all the time.

Research indicates that they do it less than the native population. If decreasing those kinds of crimes are your goal you'd be statistically better off throwing out random citizens than the same number of illegal immigrants.



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Snoopy said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

The jobs they generate would be more than enough to cover the expenses.

At the same time, US would start to crumble since they would lack massive amount of manpower. They already start to in some sectors right now, so imaging flying out even just a fraction of the democrats in the country would do to the US...

People jobs are starting to be automated at a fast rate. Truck drivers and home builders are going to soon be automated for the most part.

You didn't understand the point it seems.

More people means more services are needed. Jobs like Hairdressers, cashiers, shopkeepers, and so on. And those won't get automated anytime soon.

Really, immigration pays for itself. What kills a country is not immigration, it's the opposite of it: Emigration, as it results in Brain drain.



Torillian said:
Snoopy said:

Yeah, but stealing money, dealing drugs and hurting someone is, which is what illegal immigrants do all the time.

Research indicates that they do it less than the native population. If decreasing those kinds of crimes are your goal you'd be statistically better off throwing out random citizens than the same number of illegal immigrants.

They use up our resources and don't pay taxes, thus stealing. So nope, you're wrong again. Also, I would love to throw out all the thugs that steal and hurt people. For one it will make sure only good outstanding people live in America and Democrats will lose voter base. It's a win-win.

Last edited by Snoopy - on 07 July 2019

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Torillian said:
Snoopy said:

They are criminals, thus should be locked in jail.

I mean if anyone who commits a crime is a criminal then most everyone deserves jail time. I assume you don't think everyone who gets a traffic infraction should be in jail. Unless there's something special about illegal border crossing that you think makes it a jailable offense beyond the overly simplistic and almost childish "it's a crime". 

Finally, let's say they are criminals, if they're sick should we just leave them to die or should we treat them? Because that's what "considering illegal immigrants as people" means; not letting them die. 

They are criminals, why do you think they call them ILLEGAL? Not our problem if they get sick. There are billions of people who get sick on earth, doesn't mean it is our responsibility to take care of them. They should fix their own Country instead of leaching off of us.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
Snoopy said:

People jobs are starting to be automated at a fast rate. Truck drivers and home builders are going to soon be automated for the most part.

You didn't understand the point it seems.

More people means more services are needed. Jobs like Hairdressers, cashiers, shopkeepers, and so on. And those won't get automated anytime soon.

Really, immigration pays for itself. What kills a country is not immigration, it's the opposite of it: Emigration, as it results in Brain drain.

Those jobs won't get automated soon? I guess you haven't been paying attention especially when you list cashiers. My local grocery store is using self-checkout completely with a couple of managers to keep watch. Even grocery stores might not be here soon because they will just deliver you the food with their self-driving car.

I don't know what you do for a living, but you better find a job in IT so you can stay on top of things.



Locking illegal immigrants in prison is a terrible proposal to fix our immigration problems.



Snoopy said:
Torillian said:

Research indicates that they do it less than the native population. If decreasing those kinds of crimes are your goal you'd be statistically better off throwing out random citizens than the same number of illegal immigrants.

They use up our resources and don't pay taxes, thus stealing. So nope, you're wrong again. Also, I would love to throw out all the thugs that steal and hurt people. For one it will make sure only good outstanding people live in America and Democrats will lose voter base. It's a win-win.

So very wrong

Illegals pay sales tax, property tax, and some pay income taxes.  

Stealing has a specific definition.  Which that does not match.  

I don't think it's very likely that would cause Democrats to lose voter base.  

Sorry but if you're argument is that Democrats are criminals, that's about the lowest one can go.  

Snoopy said:
Torillian said:

I mean if anyone who commits a crime is a criminal then most everyone deserves jail time. I assume you don't think everyone who gets a traffic infraction should be in jail. Unless there's something special about illegal border crossing that you think makes it a jailable offense beyond the overly simplistic and almost childish "it's a crime". 

Finally, let's say they are criminals, if they're sick should we just leave them to die or should we treat them? Because that's what "considering illegal immigrants as people" means; not letting them die. 

They are criminals, why do you think they call them ILLEGAL? Not our problem if they get sick. There are billions of people who get sick on earth, doesn't mean it is our responsibility to take care of them. They should fix their own Country instead of leaching off of us.

-No one said it was our responsibility, but some people believe helping others is a good thing.  

-our country was built off leaching off other countries.  



Snoopy said:
Torillian said:

I mean if anyone who commits a crime is a criminal then most everyone deserves jail time. I assume you don't think everyone who gets a traffic infraction should be in jail. Unless there's something special about illegal border crossing that you think makes it a jailable offense beyond the overly simplistic and almost childish "it's a crime". 

Finally, let's say they are criminals, if they're sick should we just leave them to die or should we treat them? Because that's what "considering illegal immigrants as people" means; not letting them die. 

They are criminals, why do you think they call them ILLEGAL? Not our problem if they get sick. There are billions of people who get sick on earth, doesn't mean it is our responsibility to take care of them. They should fix their own Country instead of leaching off of us.

well I mean shit if they call them illegal you got me there, not like politics could play any part of that decision and they used to be called undocumented. 

https://qz.com/1336110/its-illegal-aliens-not-undocumented-immigrants-says-the-us-department-of-justice/

If I call you an illegal poster can I decide you're a criminal that should be jailed without having to make any real arguments about why your illegal actions are more meaningful than some other non-jailable illegal actions?

You're right, we're not responsible for anything citizen or not, but I'd rather not specifically let people in this country die if I have a say in it. 



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