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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

Proxy-Pie said:
Not an American, but damn please don't let Harris be the nominee.

I'm not a fan of hers, but I'm curious what your thoughts are on her?



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Jaicee said:

Well here it is: the first poll showing Biden in second place. It's a state-level poll of California voters. Unsurprisingly, the candidate now besting Biden in California is California Senator Kamala Harris.

It's worth taking note of this development in that I believe it's the first time any poll out of any state has shown Biden anywhere other than first place so far.

He's sinking fast in other early state polls as well. Still really strong in South Carolina, and will probably remain so, but I'm looking forward to the day when Iowa or New Hampshire show him second or worse, I think that'll be another tipping point for him losing momentum.



Jaicee said:

Well here it is: the first poll showing Biden in second place. It's a state-level poll of California voters. Unsurprisingly, the candidate now besting Biden in California is California Senator Kamala Harris.

It's worth taking note of this development in that I believe it's the first time any poll out of any state has shown Biden anywhere other than first place so far.

That's actually the second one, Change Research had one on national level where Warren beat his ass:

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/d4a2c5_2efb9006a2ce489391b353e9c8dde9f3.pdf

All in all, Biden isn't doing well in the early states, not even before the debates he did. If he get's beaten yet again in the debate or have a major slip-up somewhere, he pretty much lost most of these states, which could be catastrophic for his nomination.

Proxy-Pie said:
Not an American, but damn please don't let Harris be the nominee.

Mind to explain why?

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 21 July 2019

Yang introduced a new policy proposal for veterans.
https://www.yang2020.com/blog/more-than-a-handshake-my-plan-to-better-serve-our-veterans/



jason1637 said:
Yang introduced a new policy proposal for veterans.
https://www.yang2020.com/blog/more-than-a-handshake-my-plan-to-better-serve-our-veterans/

The dude has so many good ideas. He just needs a way of getting more of them out there to people. He put his whole campaign on UBI, which not everyone is on board with yet, with the idea of getting people interested, hooking them in, and then when they ask what he wants to do about other issues, showing that he has an answer for everything. Unfortunately it's not really working. Since not everyone is into UBI just yet, they just overlook him entirely for candidates with big names that are focusing on issues that seem more pressing today than the future of automation destroying all or most jobs. He's almost certainly not going to win, but he shouldn't give up on politics. He could definitely have a future in it if he wants. 20 years from now when all our current super old frontrunners have long since retired and perhaps even died of old age, UBI will have become a clear necessity in the meantime, and he'll have been an early champion of it who's put the most thought into realizing it. Much as Bernie had to wait 40 years before he got mainstream attention, the same could hold true for Yang, though likely much sooner, automation is right around the corner.



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Say what you will about Marianne Williamson, but if I had a chance to have a coffee and a beer with any of the candidates, it would be her. =)

I think a conversation with her would be most rewarding and enlightening.

Yeah Yang, Warren, De Blasio, and Sanders are all the front runners for the policies that are really needed in the US, I think Marianne Williamson is the one who really understands what's wrong with the US and, unlike the other four I mentioned, has the sort of outside-the-box thinking that really gets to the point. I've listened to more videos of hers than the others, and I think it's because her knowledge of history and philosophy really demolishes the others.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:

Say what you will about Marianne Williamson, but if I had a chance to have a coffee and a beer with any of the candidates, it would be her. =)

I think a conversation with her would be most rewarding and enlightening.

Yeah Yang, Warren, De Blasio, and Sanders are all the front runners for the policies that are really needed in the US, I think Marianne Williamson is the one who really understands what's wrong with the US and, unlike the other four I mentioned, has the sort of outside-the-box thinking that really gets to the point. I've listened to more videos of hers than the others, and I think it's because her knowledge of history and philosophy really demolishes the others.

Absolutely. Yeah, she's probably not presidential material, but damn if she doesn't win the have beer/coffee with question.



HylianSwordsman said:
jason1637 said:
Yang introduced a new policy proposal for veterans.
https://www.yang2020.com/blog/more-than-a-handshake-my-plan-to-better-serve-our-veterans/

The dude has so many good ideas. He just needs a way of getting more of them out there to people. He put his whole campaign on UBI, which not everyone is on board with yet, with the idea of getting people interested, hooking them in, and then when they ask what he wants to do about other issues, showing that he has an answer for everything. Unfortunately it's not really working. Since not everyone is into UBI just yet, they just overlook him entirely for candidates with big names that are focusing on issues that seem more pressing today than the future of automation destroying all or most jobs. He's almost certainly not going to win, but he shouldn't give up on politics. He could definitely have a future in it if he wants. 20 years from now when all our current super old frontrunners have long since retired and perhaps even died of old age, UBI will have become a clear necessity in the meantime, and he'll have been an early champion of it who's put the most thought into realizing it. Much as Bernie had to wait 40 years before he got mainstream attention, the same could hold true for Yang, though likely much sooner, automation is right around the corner.

Well said. For the next debate if he gets enough time he needs to establish himself as more than the UBI guy.



HylianSwordsman said:
jason1637 said:
Yang introduced a new policy proposal for veterans.
https://www.yang2020.com/blog/more-than-a-handshake-my-plan-to-better-serve-our-veterans/

The dude has so many good ideas. He just needs a way of getting more of them out there to people. He put his whole campaign on UBI, which not everyone is on board with yet, with the idea of getting people interested, hooking them in, and then when they ask what he wants to do about other issues, showing that he has an answer for everything. Unfortunately it's not really working. Since not everyone is into UBI just yet, they just overlook him entirely for candidates with big names that are focusing on issues that seem more pressing today than the future of automation destroying all or most jobs. He's almost certainly not going to win, but he shouldn't give up on politics. He could definitely have a future in it if he wants. 20 years from now when all our current super old frontrunners have long since retired and perhaps even died of old age, UBI will have become a clear necessity in the meantime, and he'll have been an early champion of it who's put the most thought into realizing it. Much as Bernie had to wait 40 years before he got mainstream attention, the same could hold true for Yang, though likely much sooner, automation is right around the corner.

While I don't see Yang as president, I would definitely put him into work in the white house cabinet, probably as secretary of the treasury or commerce, though this here would also put him into a good position for secretary of veteran affairs.



Proxy-Pie said:
Not an American, but damn please don't let Harris be the nominee.

I'll make myself the third person to request a follow-up commentary on this: why do you feel that way about Kamala Harris?

I ask because she generates relative apathy from me. I'd vote for her for sure if she were the Democratic nominee, but she wouldn't be my first or second choice. That's mostly just because I like Elizabeth Warren's ideas (and presentation) around college debt forgiveness and trust-busting a lot better, and the fact that Warren refuses to take corporate donations or attend high-dollar fundraisers helps her too in my eyes. Above all though, Elizabeth Warren stands out the most to me for her proposal to ensure that at least 40% of corporate board members are democratically elected by the workers they employ. But the truth is that Warren, though my preference, strikes me as unlikely to win the presidency precisely because a number of the views that she holds, like her taxation policies and college debt forgiveness plans, actually poll underwater among the general public. Single-payer health care, which she advocates, also polls at about 20 to 30% public support right now.

Digging into the health care policy preferences for a minute since that's currently the top issue on the minds of voters according to our recent survey data, 55-60% of Americans also regularly poll in favor of "Medicare for all" or in favor of "government-provided health insurance for all" or however the individual survey words it. People clearly sense a difference between that idea and single-payer health care, which polls only about half as well. What I get from that polling data is that most Americans want Medicare to be made an additional option for everybody, but aren't necessarily convinced it should be the only option allowed. People are in favor of more health care options, not fewer options. That's what I get out of the polling data on the subject.

Does that mean I agree with public opinion on this subject? Not at all. I favor a fully socialized system of medicine that covers more things than Medicare currently does, as that would guarantee every doctor would have to accept the national health policy, drastically reduce prescription drug prices, and streamline the whole health care system (including for veterans!) in a way that maximizes access and minimizes administrative costs. The candidates proposing a single-payer insurance system come the closest to this approach. I'm not a slave to polls. But I would also be more than happy to simply move in the right direction on this issue: to start out by making Medicare an option for everyone. We can move forward with the debate from there, I think, but we need to have that happen. (Biden's health care plan, for example, doesn't cut it.)

ANYWAY, there's an art to persuasion and Warren can be persuasive, but the edge when it comes to ideas matching polling data in a Warren-vs.-Harris situation would most naturally go to Harris. It would be left of Biden, but right of Warren. For this sort of reason, I think Harris is probably the single most electable candidate in the Democratic field in reality.

Kirsten Gillibrand would be my second choice, but I think realistically her campaign is all but over and that she'll drop out soon after the next debate. It's really her last chance to break out.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 24 July 2019