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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - DF: Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze - Switch vs Wii U

DonFerrari said:
Miyamotoo said:

Yeah I asked for one game, and you gave me, but point is that game like those are very rear (not if you can find me one game), 99% of games dont offer that, one or few examples dont change hole picture.

No, objecticlvy fact is that game you could play in full home console mode and full home console mode have higher value than game that could be played only in handheld or only in home console mode, its 2:1, its clear math. What is subjective is if someone cares about handheld or home console play. Wii U didnt offer full handheld mode, and comparing console platforms with PC platforms is not in place, there quite difrent from plenty of reasons. Its again not same thing, for PS4 not evre game supports Vita remote play, and you need to have additional hardware and you need internet connection, while with Switch you get full handheld mode and full home console mode out of box without any requirements.

Again you dont make any sense, what some dev achieve or choice to achieve with some game on some hardware (for instance choosing stronger battery life over higher resolution), doesnt mean that game couldnt be run better or that game is more demanding than some other or even same game on totaly difrent platform. Fact is that things like what are priorites with games (for instance in this case could be battery save), how good port is, how good development team is, how much time they have for development and optimisation, fact that when you porting game that was specifically made for totally different hardware won't give best results when you porting to totally different platform, point how much they are pushing hardware...effects on development of each game, so if one game runs at 648p and  720p on another totaly difrent platform doesn't mean that Switch in portable mode is less capable that Wii U, when plenty of games until now show it is more capable and specs itself are saying that.

If you were planning to dismiss the example anyway then don't ask for examples.

There is no such thing as "objective" value or 2:1. If someone doesn't consider something important than the value for that person of such thing is 0. It is just as simple as that. And if really there were more value to the market on full HH plus console as you imply Switch would not only sell more than PS4, but they would also be able to charge more for the ports and no one would complain. And since some will complain if a multiplat cost more on Switch than on PS4X1 then you can confirm that the market doesn't see this added value of double you are preaching.

Every single game launched could run better. I'm talking same platform don't try to put other things on the mix that have nothing to do with it. And again you don't have any hard fact showing what priorities made the game look or perform as is, so you are just assuming. And again I haven't said that running at 648p on Switch against 720p WiiU makes Switch weaker (could be, we don't have the data for that). What I said is if one game runs at 480p30fps and another at 720p60fps on Switch if you don't have any other data that can sustain your assumption of it not being more demanding, then by default the way it was coded for the first is more demanding to the system.

This dont make sense any more, we starting repeating same points, let's say we disagree and leave it like that.



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Miyamotoo said:
DonFerrari said: 

You asked for a game that did this, now that you were given an example you dismiss it? Classic.

Yeah I asked for one game, and you gave me, but point is that game like those are very rear (not if you can find me one game), 99% of games dont offer that, one or few examples dont change hole picture.

 

There are a lot more cross-buy games that support three playstation platforms (PS4 + PS3 + Vita):

99 Vidas
A Boy And His Blob
Another World
Back To Bed
Badland: Game Of The Year Edition
Cel Damage HD
Cosmophony
Counterspy
Doki-Doki Universe
Dragon Fantasy Book I
Dragon Fin Soup
Entwined
Fez
flOw
Flower
Helldivers
Hohokum
Hotline Miami
Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number
Jet Car Stunts
Metal Slug 3
Mousecraft
Nova-111
OlliOlli
Pumped BMX+
Q*bert Rebooted
Race The Sun
Resogun
Retro City Rampage DX
Rogue Legacy
Shovel Knight
Sound Shapes
Star Wars Pinball
Stealth Inc 2: A Game Of Clones
Teslagrad
The Bridge
The Swapper
The Swindle
The Treasures Of Montezuma 4
The Unfinished Swan
Tiny Troopers Joint Ops
Titan Attacks
Ultratron
Zen Pinball 2

 

And even more that only support two of them (but nevertheless you get full handheld mode and full home console mode)

Alien Breed
Bentley’s Hackpack
Big Sky Infinity
BIT.TRIP Presents… Runner2: Future Legend of Rhythm Alien
CastleStorm
Dead Nation
Divekick
Duke Nukem 3D: Megaton Edition
Ethan: Meteor Hunter
God Of War Collection
Guacamelee!
Hustle Kings
KickBeat
Lone Survivor: The Director’s Cut
Luftrausers
Minecraft
MotorStorm RC
Proteus
Ratchet And Clank: Q Force – all DLC
Retro City Rampage
Sly 2: Band Of Thieves
Sly 3: Honour Among Thieves
Sly Racoon
Söldner-X 2: Final Prototype
Stealth Inc: A Clone In The Dark
Stick It To The Man
Superfrog
Thomas Was Alone
Top Darts
When Vikings Attack
The Pinball Arcade
Little Big Planet
The Jak And Daxter Trilogy
The Sly Trilogy
WipEout HD
WipEout HD Fury
Knytt Underground
PlayStation All Stars Battle Royal
Ratchet And Clank: Q Force
Sly Cooper: Thieves In Time
Sky Force Anniversary
10 Second Ninja X
2064: Read Only Memories
36 Fragments Of Midnight
Active Soccer 2 DX
Alone With You
Aqua Kitty: Milk Mine Defender DX
Asdivine Hearts
Axiom Verge
Azkend 2: The World Beneath
Bard’s Gold
Bit Dungeon Plus
Blast ‘Em Bunnies
Blasting Agent: Ultimate Edition
Bombing Busters
Bridge Constructor
Broken Age
Bunny Must Die! Chelsea And The 7 Devils
Burly Men At Sea
Castle Invasion: Throne Out
Claire: Extended Cut
Color Guardians
Corridor Z
Croixleur Sigma
Crypt Of The NecroDancer
Curses ‘N Chaos
Darkest Dungeon
Day Of The Tentacle Remastered
Deadbolt
Demetrios: The Big Cynical Adventure
Dex
Dino Dini’s Kick Off Revival
Don’t Die, Mr Robot!
Don’t Starve
Downwell
Dragon Fantasy: The Black Tome of Ice
Dreii
Dungeon Punks
Escape Plan
Factotum 90
forma.8
Foul Play
Full Throttle Remastered
Futuridium
Garou: Mark Of The Wolves
Grim Fandango Remastered
Hatoful Boyfriend
Hatoful Boyfriend: Holiday Star
Hitman GO: Definitive Edition
Home
Hue
Iconoclasts
iO
King Oddball
Knock Knock
Lara Croft GO
Laser Disco Defenders
Last Wings
League Of Evil
Letter Quest Remastered
Lichtspeer
Little Red Lie
Lumo
Mercenary Kings: Reloaded Edition
Midnight Deluxe
Minutes
Mutant Mudds: Super Challenge
My Name Is Mayo
Mystery Chronicles: One Way Heroics
Neverending Nightmares
Nidhogg
Ninja Senki DX
Nuclear Throne
Octodad: Dadliest Catch
OlliOlli 2: Welcome To Olliwood
One More Dungeon
Organ Trail: Complete Edition
Paranautical Activity
Pix The Cat
PixelJunk Shooter Ultimate
Poltergeist: A Pixelated Horror
Project Root
Rally Copters
Revenant Saga
Risk of Rain
Rock Boshers DX Director’s Cut
Rocketbirds 2: Evolution
Rogue Aces
Rollers Of The Realm
Scram Kitty DX
Shu
Shutshimi
Siralim
Siralim 2
Slain: Back From Hell
Space Overlords
Spellspire
Spheroids
Spider: Rite Of The Shrouded Moon
Spy Chameleon
Squareboy Vs Bullies: Arena Edition
SteamWorld Dig
SteamWorld Dig 2
SteamWorld Heist
Still Time
Super Exploding Zoo!
Super Hydorah
Super Meat Boy
Super Time Force Ultra
Switch Galaxy Ultra
Tachyon Project
Talisman: Digital Edition
The Deer God
The King Of Fighters ’97 Global Match
The Last Blade 2
The Sun and Moon
Three Fourths Home: Extended Edition
Time Recoil
Titan Souls
Torquel
Towerfall: Ascension
Twin Robots
Type: Rider
Uncanny Valley
Undertale
UnEpic
Velocibox
Velocity 2X
Vertical Drop Heroes HD
Volgarr The Viking
Volume
We Are Doomed
Whispering Willows
Windjammers
Woah Dave!
Xenon Valkyrie+
Xenoraid
Xeodrifter

 

Last edited by Conina - on 26 April 2018

Conina said:
Miyamotoo said:

Yeah I asked for one game, and you gave me, but point is that game like those are very rear (not if you can find me one game), 99% of games dont offer that, one or few examples dont change hole picture.

There are a lot more cross-buy games that support three playstation platforms (PS4 + PS3 + Vita):

And even more that only support two of them (but nevertheless you get full handheld mode and full home console mode)

And you will need to buy two different type of hardware to have that option for some games while huge majority of games of course don't offer that in any case, Switch offer full handheld mode and full home console mode for every game out of box.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 26 April 2018

Mandalore76 said:
GOWTLOZ said:

Yes it was $50. God of War 3 Remastered and Gravity Rush Remastered were $40. All of them cheaper than this 2D platformer.

So, not $40.

Not $60 and its the only one above $40. Your point.



Miyamotoo said:
Conina said:

There are a lot more cross-buy games that support three playstation platforms (PS4 + PS3 + Vita):

And even more that only support two of them (but nevertheless you get full handheld mode and full home console mode)

And you will need to buy two different type of hardware to have that option for some games while huge majority of games of course don't offer that in any case, Switch offer full handheld mode and full home console mode for every game out of box.

Tabletop mode count too? It's a big plus for me to play with friends on the go. DK would be a nice addition but it's too pricey for me.



 

 

We reap what we sow

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bonzobanana said:
curl-6 said:

Switch in portable mode is more capable than Wii U, we have seen this demonstrated in pretty much every other conversion between the two from Zelda to FAST RMX to Bayonetta 1/2, all games which are more demanding than Tropical Freeze. Switch has two performance profiles when portable though, 307MHz or 384MHz, and the developer has the choice to use the lower powered one if they prefer. In this case, they likely figured nobody would notice a slight res drop and so prioritized maximum battery life.

I think there is a option to reduce memory speed as well to conserve battery life and there is always the pressure on storage for a portable system. Rayman Legends was worse on Switch too due to greater file compression and keeping the games storage requirements low meant loading/decompressing was slower and onscreen artifacts due to compression effects, it was impressively small though.

Prioritising battery life is as stated a reason for performance to go lower.  The extra memory and greater CPU performance of Switch isn't really required here. Having to allow good battery runtime and minimise storage space are technical reasons why a wii u may exceed the performance of Switch in portable mode sometimes surely. All that really matters is the end result. The reason the PS3 often had better soundtracks than 360 and longer and/or higher quality fmv sequences on some games was mainly down to greater storage of a bluray disc nothing more. It still enhanced those games despite having little to do with the main chipset performance of those consoles. The wii u had cheap storage with a single layer bluray disc providing 25GB of capacity and no difference in cost to manufacture a 500MB game on its optical disc or a 25GB game because the disc has a fixed capacity that you can use up to. I don't think you can just cancel out battery runtime and limited storage when it comes to Switch games and expect to be seen as fair. 

Saying that its difficult to get too worked up about either wii u or Switch as it looks so amazing emulated. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGdA686roRo

You can also run the emulator with 3D patches for Zelda for example to give VR reality or support for 3D tv's. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNREdbwizks

So its horrible to say it but often the Nintendo gaming experience can be better on non-Nintendo hardware anyway. It's why for me these Switch ports of wii u games without new content are not very interesting as a wii u owner who already owns these games and it still seems nothing really has been achieved of any significance porting the game from wii u to Switch except to play an old game at the same performance level overall. A little less resolution in portable mode, a little more docked.

Yeah as a Wii U owner myself these rehashed ports offer nothing of value to me either.

Just saying, in the grand scheme of things, games like this and Rayman are the outliers when the majority of games run better on a portable Switch than on Wii U. And those outliers seem to be down to developer choice; very likely the games could've been on par or better if not for Ubisoft going nuts with unnecessary compression or DKC apparently going for maximum battery life over visual fidelity.

DonFerrari said:

Sure there are ton that doesn`t defend and also part of those are vocal against it. Still I didn`t see you attacking the ones defending and talking about agenda. And seems like you also didn`t read the other posts on the thread where I explain that this notion came from several threads in defense of pratices like this.

I have no patience for "attacking" the kind of people who'd defend a 4 year old game selling for $60 USD, that's basically banging my head against a brick wall. If some people are that willing to let a multi-billion dollar corporation rip them off, there's not much I can do about that. But if you go into threads and articles about this even on Nintendo fan sites and you'll see tons of people rightly condemning this anti-consumer pricing.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 27 April 2018

160rmf said:
Miyamotoo said:

And you will need to buy two different type of hardware to have that option for some games while huge majority of games of course don't offer that in any case, Switch offer full handheld mode and full home console mode for every game out of box.

Tabletop mode count too? It's a big plus for me to play with friends on the go. DK would be a nice addition but it's too pricey for me.

Playing multiplayer game in local mode in full handheld mode is also plus and definitely make difference for some people.



Conina said:
Miyamotoo said:

Yeah I asked for one game, and you gave me, but point is that game like those are very rear (not if you can find me one game), 99% of games dont offer that, one or few examples dont change hole picture.

 

There are a lot more cross-buy games that support three playstation platforms (PS4 + PS3 + Vita):

99 Vidas
A Boy And His Blob
Another World
Back To Bed
Badland: Game Of The Year Edition
Cel Damage HD
Cosmophony
Counterspy
Doki-Doki Universe
Dragon Fantasy Book I
Dragon Fin Soup
Entwined
Fez
flOw
Flower
Helldivers
Hohokum
Hotline Miami
Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number
Jet Car Stunts
Metal Slug 3
Mousecraft
Nova-111
OlliOlli
Pumped BMX+
Q*bert Rebooted
Race The Sun
Resogun
Retro City Rampage DX
Rogue Legacy
Shovel Knight
Sound Shapes
Star Wars Pinball
Stealth Inc 2: A Game Of Clones
Teslagrad
The Bridge
The Swapper
The Swindle
The Treasures Of Montezuma 4
The Unfinished Swan
Tiny Troopers Joint Ops
Titan Attacks
Ultratron
Zen Pinball 2

 

And even more that only support two of them (but nevertheless you get full handheld mode and full home console mode)

Alien Breed
Bentley’s Hackpack
Big Sky Infinity
BIT.TRIP Presents… Runner2: Future Legend of Rhythm Alien
CastleStorm
Dead Nation
Divekick
Duke Nukem 3D: Megaton Edition
Ethan: Meteor Hunter
God Of War Collection
Guacamelee!
Hustle Kings
KickBeat
Lone Survivor: The Director’s Cut
Luftrausers
Minecraft
MotorStorm RC
Proteus
Ratchet And Clank: Q Force – all DLC
Retro City Rampage
Sly 2: Band Of Thieves
Sly 3: Honour Among Thieves
Sly Racoon
Söldner-X 2: Final Prototype
Stealth Inc: A Clone In The Dark
Stick It To The Man
Superfrog
Thomas Was Alone
Top Darts
When Vikings Attack
The Pinball Arcade
Little Big Planet
The Jak And Daxter Trilogy
The Sly Trilogy
WipEout HD
WipEout HD Fury
Knytt Underground
PlayStation All Stars Battle Royal
Ratchet And Clank: Q Force
Sly Cooper: Thieves In Time
Sky Force Anniversary
10 Second Ninja X
2064: Read Only Memories
36 Fragments Of Midnight
Active Soccer 2 DX
Alone With You
Aqua Kitty: Milk Mine Defender DX
Asdivine Hearts
Axiom Verge
Azkend 2: The World Beneath
Bard’s Gold
Bit Dungeon Plus
Blast ‘Em Bunnies
Blasting Agent: Ultimate Edition
Bombing Busters
Bridge Constructor
Broken Age
Bunny Must Die! Chelsea And The 7 Devils
Burly Men At Sea
Castle Invasion: Throne Out
Claire: Extended Cut
Color Guardians
Corridor Z
Croixleur Sigma
Crypt Of The NecroDancer
Curses ‘N Chaos
Darkest Dungeon
Day Of The Tentacle Remastered
Deadbolt
Demetrios: The Big Cynical Adventure
Dex
Dino Dini’s Kick Off Revival
Don’t Die, Mr Robot!
Don’t Starve
Downwell
Dragon Fantasy: The Black Tome of Ice
Dreii
Dungeon Punks
Escape Plan
Factotum 90
forma.8
Foul Play
Full Throttle Remastered
Futuridium
Garou: Mark Of The Wolves
Grim Fandango Remastered
Hatoful Boyfriend
Hatoful Boyfriend: Holiday Star
Hitman GO: Definitive Edition
Home
Hue
Iconoclasts
iO
King Oddball
Knock Knock
Lara Croft GO
Laser Disco Defenders
Last Wings
League Of Evil
Letter Quest Remastered
Lichtspeer
Little Red Lie
Lumo
Mercenary Kings: Reloaded Edition
Midnight Deluxe
Minutes
Mutant Mudds: Super Challenge
My Name Is Mayo
Mystery Chronicles: One Way Heroics
Neverending Nightmares
Nidhogg
Ninja Senki DX
Nuclear Throne
Octodad: Dadliest Catch
OlliOlli 2: Welcome To Olliwood
One More Dungeon
Organ Trail: Complete Edition
Paranautical Activity
Pix The Cat
PixelJunk Shooter Ultimate
Poltergeist: A Pixelated Horror
Project Root
Rally Copters
Revenant Saga
Risk of Rain
Rock Boshers DX Director’s Cut
Rocketbirds 2: Evolution
Rogue Aces
Rollers Of The Realm
Scram Kitty DX
Shu
Shutshimi
Siralim
Siralim 2
Slain: Back From Hell
Space Overlords
Spellspire
Spheroids
Spider: Rite Of The Shrouded Moon
Spy Chameleon
Squareboy Vs Bullies: Arena Edition
SteamWorld Dig
SteamWorld Dig 2
SteamWorld Heist
Still Time
Super Exploding Zoo!
Super Hydorah
Super Meat Boy
Super Time Force Ultra
Switch Galaxy Ultra
Tachyon Project
Talisman: Digital Edition
The Deer God
The King Of Fighters ’97 Global Match
The Last Blade 2
The Sun and Moon
Three Fourths Home: Extended Edition
Time Recoil
Titan Souls
Torquel
Towerfall: Ascension
Twin Robots
Type: Rider
Uncanny Valley
Undertale
UnEpic
Velocibox
Velocity 2X
Vertical Drop Heroes HD
Volgarr The Viking
Volume
We Are Doomed
Whispering Willows
Windjammers
Woah Dave!
Xenon Valkyrie+
Xenoraid
Xeodrifter

 

It doesn't count because of arbitrary rules... and notebooks aren't portable and stationary as well... and PSP being able to hook up to the TV without another console also doesn't count... only Nintendo endeavors count.

Someone that ask for 1 example and ignore it even so, wouldn't accept 100 as well... and you saw that he just did it.

curl-6 said:
bonzobanana said:

I think there is a option to reduce memory speed as well to conserve battery life and there is always the pressure on storage for a portable system. Rayman Legends was worse on Switch too due to greater file compression and keeping the games storage requirements low meant loading/decompressing was slower and onscreen artifacts due to compression effects, it was impressively small though.

Prioritising battery life is as stated a reason for performance to go lower.  The extra memory and greater CPU performance of Switch isn't really required here. Having to allow good battery runtime and minimise storage space are technical reasons why a wii u may exceed the performance of Switch in portable mode sometimes surely. All that really matters is the end result. The reason the PS3 often had better soundtracks than 360 and longer and/or higher quality fmv sequences on some games was mainly down to greater storage of a bluray disc nothing more. It still enhanced those games despite having little to do with the main chipset performance of those consoles. The wii u had cheap storage with a single layer bluray disc providing 25GB of capacity and no difference in cost to manufacture a 500MB game on its optical disc or a 25GB game because the disc has a fixed capacity that you can use up to. I don't think you can just cancel out battery runtime and limited storage when it comes to Switch games and expect to be seen as fair. 

Saying that its difficult to get too worked up about either wii u or Switch as it looks so amazing emulated. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGdA686roRo

You can also run the emulator with 3D patches for Zelda for example to give VR reality or support for 3D tv's. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNREdbwizks

So its horrible to say it but often the Nintendo gaming experience can be better on non-Nintendo hardware anyway. It's why for me these Switch ports of wii u games without new content are not very interesting as a wii u owner who already owns these games and it still seems nothing really has been achieved of any significance porting the game from wii u to Switch except to play an old game at the same performance level overall. A little less resolution in portable mode, a little more docked.

Yeah as a Wii U owner myself these rehashed ports offer nothing of value to me either.

Just saying, in the grand scheme of things, games like this and Rayman are the outliers when the majority of games run better on a portable Switch than on Wii U. And those outliers seem to be down to developer choice; very likely the games could've been on par or better if not for Ubisoft going nuts with unnecessary compression or DKC apparently going for maximum battery life over visual fidelity.

DonFerrari said:

Sure there are ton that doesn`t defend and also part of those are vocal against it. Still I didn`t see you attacking the ones defending and talking about agenda. And seems like you also didn`t read the other posts on the thread where I explain that this notion came from several threads in defense of pratices like this.

I have no patience for "attacking" the kind of people who'd defend a 4 year old game selling for $60 USD, that's basically banging my head against a brick wall. If some people are that willing to let a multi-billion dollar corporation rip them off, there's not much I can do about that. But if you go into threads and articles about this even on Nintendo fan sites and you'll see tons of people rightly condemning this anti-consumer pricing.

Curl, so I'm thankful that you think it's worth discussing with me. And I admit that not all fanbase is the same, and perhaps it may even be a distortion I saw (that is untrue) that there is a big support for the pricing scheme (maybe listening to a vocal minority). But since you interact more with the fanbase than me, if you perceive that there is more people against the rip off (not only of the old games for full price, but also simple late ports being more expensive) I will believe in you and change this registry on my mind.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

GOWTLOZ said:
Mandalore76 said:

So, not $40.

Not $60 and its the only one above $40. Your point.

I already made my point.  You made the blanket statement that "remasters on other systems are $40".  I pointed out that's not the case.  That's my point.  If you had said "some remasters on other systems were $40", we wouldn't be having this discussion.  I don't even agree with Tropical Freeze being $60 on Switch, but it doesn't make your original blanket statement any less wrong.



DonFerrari said:

 

And even more that only support two of them (but nevertheless you get full handheld mode and full home console mode)

It doesn't count because of arbitrary rules... and notebooks aren't portable and stationary as well... and PSP being able to hook up to the TV without another console also doesn't count... only Nintendo endeavors count.

Someone that ask for 1 example and ignore it even so, wouldn't accept 100 as well... and you saw that he just did it.

Notebooks are part of PC platforms and PC platforms is very difrent than consoles platform from plenty of reasons. No, PSP didnt could hook up to TV out of box, and again you didnt had full home console experience like Switch offers, reality is that nobady almost relly cared about fact that PSP could be connect to TV, while one of main reason why Switch is selling so great is fact that Switch are buying handheld and home consoles users. But of course you again fail to see totally obvious things, so I relly dont understand whats your point with this, what exatly you trying to proof here!?

No I didnt ignore your 1 example, it wasnt point about one example, or more more them, but about fact that huge majority of games on console market dont offer cross-buy, they are exceptions.