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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Lets End The Vita+Wii U Doom Threads Now! Post Lifetime Sales For Both and I'll Post It In The OP!

Vita 40 million
Wii U 50 Million



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Wii U: 50-55
Vita: 60-65
Handhelds seem to sell better. Wii U will sell well in the end.



1doesnotsimply

Kaizar said:
Soundwave said:
Kaizar said:
Soundwave said:
Kaizar said:
Captain_Tom said:

 

To be honest I expect the 3DS and vita to sell about one third to half their predecessors, and then for this to be the last (Good) habdheld generation.

So that means:

3DS: 50 - 75 million

Vita: 25 - 40 million

 


 3DS is selling more then the DS for crying out loud, and the DS is like near 150 million, so the 3DS will easily get life time sales of at least 175 million.


You're living in fantasy land if you think that. 

Even Iwata has stated in recent financial statements, they're not happy with 3DS sales in the West. It used to be that DS sales in Japan were big, but the US and European sales would be 2-3x higher (which is normal as this is proportionate to overall population). But nowadays the 3DS in Japan sells more than North America and Europe combined. 

Monster drop off. The 3DS is selling more like the PSP in the West than the DS, which took off like a rocket after DS Lite + NSMB. 


That was before March 30th sales.

3DS is selling meh in North America and Europe overall. March 30th doesn't change that. 

3DS isn't going to sniff the DS. 

Smartphones and tablets have killed the Nintendogs/Brain Training side of things and there's only so many kids that even still want a handheld. Adults? Outside of a tiny group of vocal adults on gaming message boards in reality that's a no-go. 


The 3DS has sold 10 million in America while the DS at this point had only sold like 8 million in America.

The 3DS had skyrocketing sales in 2/9/2013.

Plus at this point of life spam the DS had already had Pokémon Diamond & Pearl, while the 3DS won't get animal crossing until June & Pokémon X & Y not until October. And there's Smash Bros. on the go.

 

FYI here's a list of 3DS games:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_3DS_games


The DS never needed Pokemon. Nintendogs + Brain Training + other Touch Generations titles had a huge impact on the DS as did New Super Mario Bros., which for a lot of people was their first new 2D Mario since SMW 15+ years prior. So there was a lot of pent up nostalgia (NSMB2 is just "another game"). 

3DS is actually decelerating year over year in the US NPD, it's down this year for both January and February despite having NSMB2 and a new XL hardware revision. 

DS used to clear 400k-600k in a non-Christmas rush month no problem in the US, the 3DS is wheezing like a fat kid trying to get up the stairs when it gets to just shy of 200k a month. 

Nobody but kids and a very, very small subset of "hardcore gamers" (who make a lot of fuss on message boards, but barely register as a blip in actual sales) want dedicated handhelds in the West anymore IMO. The market segment is undergoing a massive reduction. 

Look at the handheld market just 4 years ago ... 

Feburary 2009 NPD

Nintendo DS - 588k

Sony PSP - 199k 

 

Lets fast forward to Feburary 2013 .... 

Nintendo 3DS - 195k (approx)

Sony Vita - 50k (approx)

 

It's not like Nintendo hasn't thrown a ton at the 3DS already. $80 price cut, XL hardware revision, tons of different colors, Super Mario 3D Land, New Super Mario Bros. 2, Mario Kart 7, Kid Icarus, Nintendogs, Zelda: OoT, Resident Evil (x2), Super Street Fighter IV, Kingdom Hearts, Paper Mario, Fire Emblem, etc. 



superchunk said:

Too early for me to do any WiiU predicting beyond I think it'll be around 10m by end of this year.

 

For Vita we have some more time. I've been pretty clear on my distaste for Sony's approach to Vita and I've said many times it should have been a phone. I stated then that it won't last longer than a few years but I was really waiting for this last holiday to pass before passing final judgement.

Vita launched Japan in December 2011 and pretty much everywhere else in February 2012.

  2011 (1 month - Japan Only) 2012 2013 (2.5months)
Vita Sales 0.5m 3.5m 0.5m

Basically 4.5m in 15.5 months. That's a pretty weak start by any definition. Which is exactly in line with my reasoning on attacking Vita early last year for Sony's approach to portable gaming.

There is some hope in its purported usage with PS4,however, how many people will buy a $200 accessory for a $400 home console? For that approach to work, Vita would need to be sub-$100 and I don't think Vita will be anywhere near $100 in 2014. Limited streaming of your console game over various crappy free wifi networks will not push consumers to buy Vita at any price really.

So, my opinion is that Vita will still have a very short life. I think I originally said it wouldn't last past 2014 and I am actually going to put that to 2015 due to Sony's push for it as a strong accessory to PS4. However, by the end of this year there will be MANY portable devices well ahead of Vita in power and gaming content for similar or less prices that also have A LOT more portable functionality. People will choose those over a Vita.

Vita will hit 10m by end of this year with strong push by Sony and PS4 launch.
Vita will then add another 3 to 5 million in 2014.
Vita will then be replaced in early to mid 2015 due to no growth and actually a YOY decline. It will be replaced with what I argued Sony should have done to begin with. A far better portable product focused on Android platform with strong PlayStation inclusion, including the same PS4 streaming capability, but on 4GLTE and a detachable $20 controller.

Vita ending life around 20m.

I quoted Superchunk because I was pretty much going to write the same thing.

For Vita, I don't think it has much hope as it stands.  It's too powerful for its own good and doesn't offer any truly compelling games for the mass market.  Sony doesn't have the 1st party games to move it and 3rd parties don't want to put their games on it because it doesn't have a big enough user base.  The price drop will help, but there is still little reason to buy it.  Smart phones are better options for the non-game uses of Vita, and that will only become more pronounced.

I will say 20 million for Vita, unless/until an experiaVita is released, which could do quite well.

For Wii U I also think it is too early to make a valid prediction.  We don't know:

-Nintendo's big games.

-Significant third party support beyond watch_dogs, AC4 and RE: Revelations.

-The price difference between Wii U and NextBox/PS4.

So, in the best case (for Nintendo) scenario, Mario 3D, Zelda HD, X and the Retro project will look outstanding and appeal to the core market, WiiFitU and other new titles will capture some casual customers and some other AAA third party titles such as GTA and Destiny will appear on the system.  PS4 and Nextbox will be at least $450.  Quickplay iOS apps will become popular on WiiU and it will capture some of the would-be tablet market. Lifetime sales: 100++ million.

In the bad scenario PS4 and X720 will be $299, Nintendo will release Mario Rainy Day instead of Mario Universe, WiiFitU totally bombs, no apps are ported to the Gamepad, and Watch_Dogs is the last AAA 3rd party game we see.  Lifetime sales: 30 million.

In the realistic world I think the sales range for Wii U is 50-100 million since I think the core Nintendo titles will do well.  I also think the Wii U will be significantly less expensive than other systems... at least $100.  The Nintendo brand is still very significant as well, with last week Wii +Wii U sales exceeding the total for X360.  That means a significant portion of console gamers are buying Nintendo products, even at a point where most of us would say this is a low point for Nintendo.  When you factor in portables, Nintendo has about 50% of the hardware market.  Consumers like the brand, and will most likely buy its product.

For the time being I'm going to say 100 million lifetime for Wii U.  I'm assuming strong 1st party titles, moderately high pricing for competitors, the porting of iOS apps for gamepad, moderate 3rd party support from Ubisoft, Activision, Capcom and others, and some carry-over brand value from Wii as evidenced by the high end-gen sales of Just Dance, Wii Sports and others.  I might cut this prediction by as much as 50% after e3 or whenever we know more about future product and pricing throughout the industry, but for now it's where I optimistically see it.



The Wii U "price advantage" is killed by the PS3/360 which will continue to get third party support for the next 3-4 years. If devs can bother to make a Wii U game, they'll make a PS3/360 version too. Not going to ignore 150+ million users for a piddly Wii U userbase.

Wii U's not even competing with PS4/720 so I don't even see that as an actual problem. I dare ya (seriously double dare ya) to go into any retailer and try to talk someone getting a PS4/720 this fall into getting a Wii U. You're wasting your breath. This is a completely different audience, Nintendo lost a lot of this crowd a long time ago. 

PS3/360 are the bigger problem for Nintendo, I can see a lot of parents and even kids preferring those systems. They have far more games, cheaper entry price, better online services, better hardware bundles, and waves of $20 games. You can get a PS3 + 4-5 pretty damn good discounted games for $350 pretty easily right now, makes the Nintendo Land bundle look like crap. 

I suspect price cuts for the PS3/360 are incoming this summer/fall also. Both overdue.

A $199.99 PS3/360 with a game bundled this fall is a bigger problem for Nintendo.

Nintendo needs to get off their asses and make something NEW (NOT MARIO or a mini-game collection) that can break through and requires a new audience to get the system, something that's a big hit. Every other route is a dead end IMO. 



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Soundwave said:

The Wii U "price advantage" is killed by the PS3/360 which will continue to get third party support for the next 3-4 years. If devs can bother to make a Wii U game, they'll make a PS3/360 version too. Not going to ignore 150+ million users for a piddly Wii U userbase.

Wii U's not even competing with PS4/720 so I don't even see that as an actual problem. I dare ya (seriously double dare ya) to go into any retailer and try to talk someone getting a PS4/720 this fall into getting a Wii U. You're wasting your breath. This is a completely different audience, Nintendo lost a lot of this crowd a long time ago. 

PS3/360 are the bigger problem for Nintendo, I can see a lot of parents and even kids preferring those systems. They have far more games, cheaper entry price, better online services, better hardware bundles, and waves of $20 games. You can get a PS3 + 4-5 pretty damn good discounted games for $350 pretty easily right now, makes the Nintendo Land bundle look like crap. 

I suspect price cuts for the PS3/360 are incoming this summer/fall also. Both overdue.

A $199.99 PS3/360 with a game bundled this fall is a bigger problem for Nintendo.

Nintendo needs to get off their asses and make something NEW (NOT MARIO or a mini-game collection) that can break through and requires a new audience to get the system, something that's a big hit. Every other route is a dead end IMO. 



I agree that PS360 is a major problem for Wii U, and will be for PS4 and Nexbox too. But not for long. PS360 is old. Still plays great games, but kids don't want a system that was released before they were born. Nothing can change that. They are dying and no amount of 3rd party support will stop that.

TheLastStarFighter said:
Soundwave said:

The Wii U "price advantage" is killed by the PS3/360 which will continue to get third party support for the next 3-4 years. If devs can bother to make a Wii U game, they'll make a PS3/360 version too. Not going to ignore 150+ million users for a piddly Wii U userbase.

Wii U's not even competing with PS4/720 so I don't even see that as an actual problem. I dare ya (seriously double dare ya) to go into any retailer and try to talk someone getting a PS4/720 this fall into getting a Wii U. You're wasting your breath. This is a completely different audience, Nintendo lost a lot of this crowd a long time ago. 

PS3/360 are the bigger problem for Nintendo, I can see a lot of parents and even kids preferring those systems. They have far more games, cheaper entry price, better online services, better hardware bundles, and waves of $20 games. You can get a PS3 + 4-5 pretty damn good discounted games for $350 pretty easily right now, makes the Nintendo Land bundle look like crap. 

I suspect price cuts for the PS3/360 are incoming this summer/fall also. Both overdue.

A $199.99 PS3/360 with a game bundled this fall is a bigger problem for Nintendo.

Nintendo needs to get off their asses and make something NEW (NOT MARIO or a mini-game collection) that can break through and requires a new audience to get the system, something that's a big hit. Every other route is a dead end IMO. 



I agree that PS360 is a major problem for Wii U, and will be for PS4 and Nexbox too. But not for long. PS360 is old. Still plays great games, but kids don't want a system that was released before they were born. Nothing can change that. They are dying and no amount of 3rd party support will stop that.


There still will be a market for the cheaper console for kids entering the game industry. I don't think young kids really care so much about the age of the console anyway, just as long as it has new games on it. 

The PS3/360 have Skylanders. And about 100 different LEGO games. And will likely have basically any Wii U third party game. 

Sony/MS probably honestly still have one more hardware refresh they could do with the PS3/360 (another die shrink + casing redesign) to be honest. Neither one has even gotten to under $199.99 which is kinda crazy to think about, because the majority of PS2 sales came after it hit $199.99. 

The PS3/360 is a problem for the Wii U for at least the next 2-3 years IMO, which is more than enough to kill any momenteum Nintendo is trying to gain during the formative years of the Wii U. 

If I'm Sony/MS I'd continue to support the PS3/360 with a couple of new games every year too, just to keep Nintendo's feet to the fire. There's also expanding markets like China, India, South America, etc. and seeing how the PS2 sold for years on end, I think MS/Sony both are viewing the PS3/360 "grey years" in a completely different light. 

Nintendo never, ever, ever should've made a system that was basically just a PS3-360, they walked right into a giant pile of quicksand IMO. 



Kaizar said:
Mythmaker1 said:

Playstation Vita = 32 million

Based on what's known right now, I think it's a safe bet. I don't expect the system to sell that much on its own merits, little over 20 million, but PS4 integration could push it higher. That said, I won't know til E3 what's in the pipeline, so I'm shooting a bit high.

Wii U = 20 million

I consider that a fairly optimistic estimate. It sold great it's first month or so, but now it's on track to fall behind the Playstation 3 by the end of the month; the Xbox 360, by mid-May. And if there's anything coming in the next six months to change that, I haven't seen it.


Pikmin 3

Bayonetta 2

Zelda this fall on Wii U

And much more.

 

Off topic:

I predict the 3DS Life Time Sales to be 200 million at this current rate, with Pokémon X/Y becoming the #1 pre-ordered game of 2013 starting in the next 1 to 3 months.

JohnLucas, you're back?



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

Well, I think Vita will on average do a bit better than 4 million, so 5 million per year on average. WiiU will do even a bit better with good holiday-sales and Nintendo having some more cards to play than Sony for Vita. So six million per year on average.

Both I expect to last around 7 years, that makes:
PS Vita: 35 million
WiiU: 42 million



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

pezus said:
Kaizar said:
Mythmaker1 said:

Playstation Vita = 32 million

Based on what's known right now, I think it's a safe bet. I don't expect the system to sell that much on its own merits, little over 20 million, but PS4 integration could push it higher. That said, I won't know til E3 what's in the pipeline, so I'm shooting a bit high.

Wii U = 20 million

I consider that a fairly optimistic estimate. It sold great it's first month or so, but now it's on track to fall behind the Playstation 3 by the end of the month; the Xbox 360, by mid-May. And if there's anything coming in the next six months to change that, I haven't seen it.


Pikmin 3

Bayonetta 2

Zelda this fall on Wii U

And much more.

 

Off topic:

I predict the 3DS Life Time Sales to be 200 million at this current rate, with Pokémon X/Y becoming the #1 pre-ordered game of 2013 starting in the next 1 to 3 months.

I'm going to say neither of these will happen. CoD and GTA will outpace it easily in pre-orders while 3DS will sell 100-120m I'd think. Possibly less if Nintendo drop support too early.

I don't think that will happen.

Animal Crossing New Leaf & Pokémon X/Y will outpace that easily in pre-orders while PS3 & 360 get 80 million life time sales a system.