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Forums - Sales Discussion - Japan - First Day Sales (Wii Music debut)

Xen said:
Bitmap Frogs said:
Xen said:
Gamerace said:
^^Maybe Namco is hoping to profit off SkyCrawlers in the western markets?

Meh... I don't expect it to turn big profits in the west - if at all.

 

 

They just need their pr team to rebadge the game and should do well: something like "Attack on the USA: the Independence Wars".

This is so... corny. Lol.

 

 

Yeah lol but corny sells.

Just check your local movie theater =D

 





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Gamerace said:
trestres said:
@Gamerace: Nah, not all of them. Not even most of them. This is just strange IMO.
Was it advertised at all? At least we know the dev wasnt expecting too much from it. Or maybe retailers.

Quick check of L-T-D Japan Wii games sales reveal:

Out of traditional 3rd party games for Wii in Japan:

1 has sold more than 500,000 (Dragon Quest) and that was almost entirely week 1 sales.

2 have sold more than 250,00 (DQ above and RE:UC)

4 have sold more than 150,000

a total of 12 have managed greater than 100,000.  Only 12.

All other traditional type 3rd party games have failed to even reach a measly 100,000 and you have to wonder if they can even cover costs of a cheaply made game with such low sales.  

Games like Namco 'Family' series or Wii Sport-type mini games series are exceptions but we're taking what normally would have sold well on PS2 to the 'core' gamer.   Those games just generally don't sell on Wii.   Even RE:UC & DQ are not traditional PS2 -type games.  One's a rail shooter (a formerly dead genre) and the other a wiimote wagglefest. 

 Even Nintendo struggles - Warioland, FF4 and Disaster all have weak sales and even the greats - Mario & Link have underwhelmed with sales of SMG and LoZ:TP in Japan.

Yes, it's funny because third party games have sold better on PS3 than on Wii.



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Bets with Conegamer:

Pandora's Tower will have an opening week of less than 37k in Japan. (Won!)
Pandora's Tower will sell less than 100k lifetime in Japan.
Stakes: 1 week of avatar control for each one.

Fullfilled Prophecies

noname2200 said:
yushire said:
noname2200 said:

 

LOL WUT? Konami? Squeenix and Konami they are all the same just like Ubi shoveling software on the Wii. Except for Elebits and Dewy's adventure I think theres no Konami titles that I could say quality or making the publisher profited. I think you should make example on SEGA instead with their Lets tap game and other titles on the Wii like Madworld, Mario and Sonic, SEGA superstar tennis and Sonic Dark Knight, but Konami? Naah... and yeah, Im posting here in the casual japanese perspective.

 

I'm afraid I can't, Yushire. I'm not speaking of the quality of the games at all; I'm merely passing along the data for the sales in Japan, and Konami has actually had some good-selling games in Japan. Deca Sports, Power Pro Baseball, and PES 2008 have all done alright for themselves in Japan alone, most especially Deca Sports. Sega's making a killing off the Wii too, but more in the West than in Japan. Whether we like that or not sales are sales.

 

But while the last post was about sales, I'll reserve the rest of this one for your quality argument.

I actually hadn't thought about this before you posted, but I'm actually okay with Konami's Wii output so far. Pro Evolution Soccer is the first soccer game since Mega Man Soccer that I actually enjoyed playing (the fact that it's revolutionary doesn't hurt), and Power Pro was a fun game (even if it needs motion controls. Get on that Konami!) Elebits was flawed, but enjoyable, and the same can be said for Dewy's Adventure. The fact that the latter two are dirt cheap didn't hurt.

Mind you, there are plenty of other publishers who are ahead of them in my mind. Sega's definitely up there (never thought I'd say that after their post-Dreamcast days...), I've enjoyed most of Capcom's games, and Marvelous is looking just that. But you won't find me dumping on Konami anytime soon.

 

Konami has some "expanded" games for DS like Quiz Magic or others that seems appeal to girls (I don't know if they developed by Hudson though). And I agree with noname, I'm very happy with the Konami so far, it may not have a lot of support for the Wii, but at least with great quality, Elebits was fun and unique, with good use of the control and the first game to have online, Dewy's has some of the best graphics on Wii, Pro Evolution is revolutionary, and Power Pros (both of them) are great but I agree they are PS2 ports.

 

On topic, I think those were good sales for Wii Music, it's not a game that you'll pick on day one but it will have strong legs. Sky Crawlers sales however are very dissapointing. Current gen consoles are having a hard time in Japan and the traditional software is not selling, except Nintendo, huge franchises and PS2 games. It just seems japanese are still very satisfied with their PS2 and are in no hurry to buy a new console.



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@outlawauron: Yes, it's funny because PS3 games have had 10x the budget of Wii games and have most been sequels to the most popular core franchises in Japan, while the Wii got ports/remakes/spin-offs/shovelware/New IPs.

Aren't you hasting a bit while making a blanket statement like that? It would be better to judge Wii vs other consoles when games actually start to arrive, not while Wii gets the scraps. Blame it on 3rd parties for putting their main franchises on other consoles, Wii has nothing to do with this.

But that's a common statement that is being used by haters that are desperate to find anything positive about their consoles of choice, when they see that they sell terribly bad and there's nothing that could happen to save them.



Proud poster of the 10000th reply at the Official Smash Bros Update Thread.

tag - "I wouldn't trust gamespot, even if it was a live comparison."

Bets with Conegamer:

Pandora's Tower will have an opening week of less than 37k in Japan. (Won!)
Pandora's Tower will sell less than 100k lifetime in Japan.
Stakes: 1 week of avatar control for each one.

Fullfilled Prophecies

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noname2200 said:



No. No you don't.

For starters, your implied contention that traditional titles don't sell on the Wii in Japan is flawed, since Brawl, Kart, Galaxy, and others have been doing quite well for themselves. They've all outsold the nearest core console title in Japan, first or third party (Metal Gear). If anything, that statistic can be flipped to say that core titles sell best on the Wii, since all but one of the core titles that have sold over 500k are on the Wii.

But moving to your main contention that "You have to realize something is wrong with your userbases' buying habits (the Wii's) when Metal Gear Solid 4 on PS3 can nearly outsell your top 2, 3rd party games on another system with well over twice the userbase."

Why would you expect third-party Wii games to compete with Metal Gear Solid 4 in terms of sales, when the latter obviously has much more time, energy, talent, and advertising thrown into it than any non-Nintendo Wii title? I invite you to name a third-party core Wii game that deserves to have that level of sales in Japan.

You do realize I'm talking 3rd party games as a whole, and not first party games, right? there's a reason I only selected those. It's obvioust that Nintendo titles are doing rather well (except for Super Mario Galaxy which hasn't done so hot in Japan). I was only talking 3rd parties. You can throw Brawl and the like in there - but again - I'm talking 3rd parties.



But you'll no doubt say that Metal Gear was just an example, and that considering the size of the base traditional Wii titles (from third parties; we're again neglecting Nintendo since that contradicts the argument) there should be more Wii titles in your table. So I extend my invitation further. Which third-party core Wii game do you think had half the care and attention as Devil May Cry, or Tales of Vesperia?

No More Heroes? Tales of Symphonia: DoTNW? Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dragon Quest spinoffs on the DS have sold over 1 million copies, but did half of that on the Wii.



Ah, but I'd like for you to comment further, because as demonstrated above, the numbers only tell part of the tale. At the risk of being a broken record: which side of the aisle do you reckon has seen more effort by third parties so far, the Wii or the PS3? I'll give you a starting point, if you wish: examine your list, and tell me which system has the mainline games, and which has the spinoffs. Then proceed to look at development budgets. Next, name me third party Wii games that should have sold better.

I'm not going to argue the Wii hasn't seen as much 3rd party development as the Playstation 3. But why is it that Konami keeps putting out mainline titles like Pro Baseball Spirits and other big baseball titles, and sells well below the PS2 versions? What about the fact that Pro Evolution Soccer sold 3 times as many copies on the PS3 as the Wii? Go look at the Apple to Apple comparisons: The Playstation 3 won quite a few of them if I'm not mistaken.

Again, I'd like someone here to explain how a system that has 7 million consoles sold manages to put out a very popular sports game like Pro Evolution Soccer 2008, and gets outsold by a system that has under 1/2 the hardware units available.

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

@mrstickball: Stop cherrypicking. Plus PES 08 got released way later (Last version released and all hype gone) and presented a new control scheme and much less content.

Is my explanation good enough?



Proud poster of the 10000th reply at the Official Smash Bros Update Thread.

tag - "I wouldn't trust gamespot, even if it was a live comparison."

Bets with Conegamer:

Pandora's Tower will have an opening week of less than 37k in Japan. (Won!)
Pandora's Tower will sell less than 100k lifetime in Japan.
Stakes: 1 week of avatar control for each one.

Fullfilled Prophecies

mrstickball said:

 

As it stands, The Playstation 3 is the best seller of 3rd party software over 100k (and most likely entirely). Period. Maybe that's me, but if console has almost 1/3rd the hardware units in the wild, yet are outselling your competition, there's a massive problem. I'm not going to comment further than this, because I think the numbers speak for themselves.

Ah this explains why we saw so huge efforts by japanese third party to develop for PS3 last TGS.

 



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Ugh people arguing userbases again and hwo they relate to sale. The point is they don't as really all they do is give feasible limits. They do not represent a certain percent of decrease or increase given a title's sales. Seriously just ignorant now to not understand that very simple concept. Ugh and from peole that denote themselves as knowing things about sales.

Anyways Wii Music opens to about what I'd expect. Given all the negative hype it would be surprising if it did really strong numbers in its first week. But that won't stop the mainstream unless the hype wass so negastive that it thrashed the brand as well which is doubtful considering Wii Fit is keeping the brand strong.



mrstickball said:
noname2200 said:

You do realize I'm talking 3rd party games as a whole, and not first party games, right? there's a reason I only selected those. It's obvioust that Nintendo titles are doing rather well (except for Super Mario Galaxy which hasn't done so hot in Japan). I was only talking 3rd parties. You can throw Brawl and the like in there - but again - I'm talking 3rd parties.

 

Yes, you did restrict the titles selected to just third parties. But your argument did not. I quote:

"See, here's the problem: The X360, PS2 and PS3, despite their userbases, manage to sell core titles. Not as much as they used to, but despite the userbases, there have been some successes, again despite the user bases.

You have to realize something is wrong with your userbases' buying habits (the Wii's) when Metal Gear Solid 4 on PS3 can nearly outsell your top 2, 3rd party games on another system with well over twice the userbase."

You make a blanket statement that "something is wrong with userbases' buying habits" because they don't buy "core" titles, then in the same sentence you eliminate the best-selling core titles on any system. Note that before the final clause, i.e. the exclusionary clause, third-parties are not mentioned anywhere; your argument is all-encompassing, so your data should be too.

As a sidenote, you're also wrong about there being something wrong with a userbase, just because it doesn't buy the same type of titles as you. The kindest word for that is "elitism." Please stop practicing it.

I do thank you for answering one of my questions. Let me address the flaws the in your answer.

No More Heroes is a Western-oriented game made by a niche developer. None of Suda51's titles have done well in Japan, despite being on the almighty PS2. Do the titles Flower, Sun, Rain and Killer 7 ring any bells? They both tanked in Japan, just like No More Heroes did. The difference is that No More Heroes did quite well overseas, while the former titles did not...

Tales of Symphonia: DoTNW was publicly and repeatedly referred to as a spinoff game made by Namco's second-stringers. Vesperia was the game to watch, supposedly, as it was being done by Team Symphonia and actually had a budget. And yet New World outsold it handily.

Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles has two problems for your argument. First, it's a low-budget spinoff game in a genre that rarely does all that well nowadays. Second, and more importantly...it sold well dude. Like, way over Capcom's expectations well. The title was only expected to sell 650k worldwide. It did almost half that in Japan alone. You may have picked a poor example with this one...Oh, and compare the sales of this game with Time Crisis 4, if you please.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dragon Quest spinoffs on the DS have sold over 1 million copies...

Cheerfully! You're wrong. Dragon Quest Monsters sold over a million, but Rocket Slime was outsold by Swords. This in spite of the fact that gaming in Japan has transferred to the handhelds, and that Swords costs way more. I'd also like to point out the glaringly obvious: Dragon Quest Swords comes from a spinoff series that began on the PS2, Kenshin Dragon Quest. I believe it was outsold by Swords...

Mr. Stickball said:

I'm not going to argue the Wii hasn't seen as much 3rd party development as the Playstation 3. But why is it that Konami keeps putting out mainline titles like Pro Baseball Spirits and other big baseball titles, and sells well below the PS2 versions? What about the fact that Pro Evolution Soccer sold 3 times as many copies on the PS3 as the Wii? Go look at the Apple to Apple comparisons: The Playstation 3 won quite a few of them if I'm not mistaken.

...Again, I'd like someone here to explain how a system that has 7 million consoles sold manages to put out a very popular sports game like Pro Evolution Soccer 2008, and gets outsold by a system that has under 1/2 the hardware units available.

Apples to apples it is, then. For PES, recall that the Wii version was released six months after all the other versions, when the soccer season was winding down. There's a reason why sports sim games are released at the start of the season, you know. Or do you reckon fans should double-dip on a 1:1 basis?

As for Power Pro, I concede that some games don't seem to fare as well on the Wii as they do on the PS2, although for some games that trend is reversed (see Dragon Quest Swords for one example). Mind you, the PS2 is still very much alive in Japan (its sales are above the PS3's this week, and PS2 games continue to routinely chart in the Top Ten. Don't count the little black box out yet...). Of course, PS2 games are still outselling HD console games in Japan too, so don't start crowing just yet, my friend. And curiously enough, Japanese developers are shifting more and more to the Wii, rather than to the PS3. Why might that be?

Edit: Holy crap, that took a while. Need to start typing quicker.