TF is very different than TFC is very different than TF2, I agree. But a lot of fundamentals are the same: same classes, same goals. I'm going to have to get used to lacking grenades, and I'm sure the Scout's double jump is going to be strange, but overall, I expect the skills to translate fairly well.

There's really two broad types of FPS: Counter Strike style, where single shots can and do kill, and no one lasts more than 2-3 bullets; Unreal Tournament style, where people can be bounced around by many bullets, and someone can theoretically engage in extended dogfights with enemy players. Despite all the differences, TF/TFC/TF2 all fall into that latter category. 

TF?

 Best post of thread, sir.

Instead of using the expensive graphic engines and developing systems they tossed so much money into as they geared towards PC and the newer generation of games, they're now like deer in the headlights, scrambling to figure out what the hell they're going to do when the Wii controls top slice of the market pie. In my opinion, making good games for the Wii will ultimately be harder than the other two systems until developers get over that initial hump of using motion controls. How do we use them? What do we use them for? Do we develop a game and add the controls into it or try working from the ground up around them?

 Once they figure out what works, then they actually have to come up with ideas (Or, do what I mentioned elsewhere, merely mimic other trends on the Wii and hope for quick bucks with little innovation involved.) Once that's done, then it's only a matter of working with what they have and prodding developers along to make sure they get things right. When a game has a shoddy or tacked-on control feel, it's not so much the game that suffers, but the Wii itself, as it's so much easier to be critical of a new style of control than it is an old one.

And what does the wii being underpowered have to do with this? Is that your justification for bashing the Wii then turning around to cry foul on those who do the same to Sony? Face it, you Sony trolls are just trying to enforce yet another double standard to your favor. You're essentially saying its justified to bash the Wii but not the PS3. We have legit info that Sony is a malicious and unethical corporation yet somehow that's never enough to convince you that the PS3 is but the tip of the iceberg. Instead you just simply look at the technology and pretend anything Sony does that is bad, never happened. The fact of the matter is you can't condone anyone's opinion that the PS3 is bad yet you expect us to eat up every little negative trivial tidbit you can dig up on the Wii. If this is the way you are going to act on this forum then I'll relish watching the Wii send your type of gamer back to the PC where you belong.

1. What happened to point 1?

2. By sequels and franchises you mean Gran Turismo, Tekken6 and FFXIII, oh yeah, what a line up, three whole exclusive franchise games, fantastic. Funny how you try to spin this but the fact of the matter is you have all along nay-sayed the Wii's game philosiphy despite them having strong franchises which you claim is the reason the PS3 is worth defending*rolls eyes*. This is just becoming another case of a fanboy enforcing the doublestandard of opinion. "Sony's games are awesome because they're all proven sequels", oh wait the vast majority coming out for the PS3 aren't. "Nintendo's has nothing but mini-games and bad ports", despite the fact they have even more proven franchises and sequels comming out exclusively for their console than the PS3. You just spin it to however it suits Sony in the end. It's not even a matter of objectivity or bias, you just simply want to think what you so desperately want to believe, that graphics make the game.

3. Everytime something negative about the PS3 is said, it's attacked as being Sony bashing, everytime something negative about the Wii is said, you defend it by claiming you're entitled to your opinion. Again, a lovely double standard. Funny, how come I never see you post anything positive about the Wii? And why did you dodge my point that you never post anything negative about Sony?

5. And where do you see me ever claiming you said anything specifically about the PS2? I merely said that I doubt you would have taken the same stance against the PS2 as you have with the Wii, a point, which you still have yet to deny or confirm. Instead you just dance around it claiming there's no evidence of one thing or another, as if that's what this was about to begin with. Why are you dodging the issue? If you're so for the underdog, did you fight against the PS2 on principle as well last gen? Hmmm? Well? 

If you can't debate without making gross generalization and outlandish exagerations then you maybe you shouldn't be debating at all.

- You called supporters of Nintendo sheep based on nothing but your own personal opinion of why you don't like their business philosiphy and their system. I showed you just as easily how name calling could be applied to supporters of Sony... which you attacked hypocritically trying to use very same logic you called the Nintendo supporters sheep for to try and justify the purchase of a PS3.

- You claim there is nothing wrong with this thread and its not Anti-Nintendo but then defend it by attacking Nintendo supporters. When I ask you why you never posted any positive news about Nintendo or negative news about Sony, you dodged the question trying to put me under the spotlight instead. You still have yet to answer that quesiton by the way.

- You claim you support the underdog yet when I said I doubt you had the same opinion for the PS2 you dodged the issue altogether and began attacking specific claims I rightfully never made.

I'm glad we finally see you show your true colors of being a Nintendo-Hater. This entire debate was nothing but you scrambling to dodge the issue and try to redirect the argument at me, a pathetic display. Congratulations, you are now the troll. 

The Ultimate truth here is that you want this entire forum to be your own personal Sony support group as an escape from the reality of your lack luster console. Only on forums like this will you find people so delusional to think anything Sony has done since the PS2 is going to be the future trend of gaming. And damn the person who gets in your way and shatters that illusion. Call me a troll, call me a Sony hater, but if that's case why am I the one standing my ground and you the one whose dodging questions and scrambling to try and turn the argument against on me?

SEGA is in a real sorry state...out of handheld, console buisness and lacklustre games as a 3rd party..virtua tennis on wii makes perfect sense but not to them it seems..skies of arcadia was excellent,a sequel maybe? again no..all we get is monkey ball and sonic with control issues..then this shot my own foot statement...

I am sorry I am late to the party, had very little time to post the last days have been replaying FE (GC) and the sun has been shining here in Sweden. So thats the reason why I am dragin up an old post.

First I would like to make a clarification: I have in severel threads asked why graphics will be so important within 2 years so that Wii will look dated, when it already looks dated TODAY! Now please ckmlb can you please answer that question? I mean it looks like you have that belif.

So to the evidence that graphics has is inferior on Wii compared to PS3 or xbox360:

Excite Truck vs Motorstorm, well quite a clear victory to Motorstorm I think, do you disagree?

Red Steel vs Resistance(sp?) or Gears of War, same here seems like PS3 and xbox360 is wining that match to.

Tiger Woods (Wii) vs Tiger Woods (xbox360, PS3), again a clear vicotry for the HD-consol.

Wii Sport vs Fight Night, sorry Wii seems to get you ass kicked today.

Wii Sport vs MLB 2K7, well not much to state their is it?

I think I can go on like this for ever, Wii is already dated when it comes to graphics so why should it matter if it still is dated in 2009?

I have never played any golf game more than half an hour in my life....before i played tiger on wii(hours on end)...guess that says something right there...

Another load of BS... and I am tired of correcting your made up shit about what I say.

But most importantly I didn't say anything about Nintendo people being sheep, I said if you keep knocking down any questioning of anythign Wii then you are asking people to be sheep...

Read before you fuckin talk.

Also no matter how I point out the flawed logic that you use you still type back a fuckin book load of stuff and I am tired of this childish back and forth nonsense.

I have all three consoles and I will enjoy all the games on them if it makes you feel good to say the PS3 is lackluster and there are only 3 franchises on it that are also crappy by the way then keep telling that to yourself you obviously need it to feel good.

Cause you know Nintendo is your religion and you need to get back at Sony for 10 years of leading in video games lol... so fuckin sad and vindictive over a video game console debate. 

Well never said that the game was bad,I just said that itwas inferior in graphics compared to the xbox360 version.

@cklmb 

seems like that you didn't want to answer my question above or you missed it, mayby you could do answer it next time you post? 

1. Oh really? Made up shit you say? Would you like to offer some substance to that claim or don't you have the courage to do anything more than spout baseless allegations and in doing so making shit up?

2. And by Questioning you mean a free ticket for Bashing/naysaying, the very same act when done to Sony warrants a tongue lashing, how convenient is that. Tell me can I use this argument next time you or someone else tries to scold me for bashing Sony? I can just say, you're being sheep if you don't question Sony? And if this is really the case why didn't you just say this in the first place instead of taking that long detour of rhetoric and attacking me?

3. The only person not reading is you. Time and time again you dodge my points and try and supplement a compensatory argument in place of the one I was actually adressing. Don't try and simply turn this around on me without even single cited example to support your flaming.

4. Book load? Sorry but good logic and reasoning can't be sumized in just one sloppy scentence as you've been attempting to do for every response. Is it that hard for you to read all the stuff I type? Is that why you've been grossly misinterpretting my claims and ignore the bulk of my points, the text is too long to read? LOL!!! So are you just skimming the argument then assuming my stance after the fact? You also claim you've pointed out my flawed logic yet all I see is you dodging my questions and shoving these baseless allegations at me. Perhaps you would like to offer some substance to your claims.

5. It takes more than owning all systems and liking a few games for each to be unbiased. Only a child would think such credentials without context are satisfactory. You're also dodging the issue altogether again. How come you never post positive news about Nintendo or negative news about Sony? Here's a Link to a news item that you conveniently avoided posting then attacked as a thread after it was posted, and you want us to believe this thread of yours was purely for News purposes? How come you never responded directly to me pointing out that there were only three well known exclusive franchises coming out for the PS3 anytime soon when you had claimed it was the sole reason you knew all of the PS3's games would be a sure thing?

6. I'm an aethiest actually. :) There's no need to get back at Sony, they're already paying the price. And to be honest, the PS2 and PS1 weren't sins against the consumer outside of quality control, they helped show Nintendo the way for david to beat goliath. The PS3 is a sin without redemption though, its a sin against the casual gamer and the company behind it, Sony, we have known for a long time is an unethical and foul company. Funny how you avoid responding directly to any claims of Sony's terrible track record by simply just accusing me of having a vendetta, lol.

Look at what you've been reduced to, making outlandish claims with no substance or evidence in the slightest. Putting words in the other person's mouth. Backtracking your arguments. Continuing to dodge points and change the issues. Have you no shame? Have you no self respect? You're even to the point of accusing me of writing too much, lol! How does it feel to be a troll?