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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why do people call the 360, JRPG console this generation?

Lone_Canis_Lupus said:
 

If you can use flawed logic, so can he:

This all was flawed logic, but you were right (well, Dodoce was, but you used the logic as well) on pretty much all accounts except the PS3 having no ability to move JRPGs and the watching it on the Zune thing. You made a lot of assumptions in these claims. Tombi is doing the same thing. So Pot, meet kettle.


I don't claim credit for this idea, Dodoce posted it a while back but I couldn't find the thread:

-If this game was on the PS3, Sony would want us to know about it already. This holds for both PS3 exclusive and PS3/360 multiplatform. Sony is still largely trading on potential as far as games go, ESPECIALLY in Japan where sales are dismal.

If MS would wait on announcing it, why would Sony? Flawed logic.

-IF the game was on the 360, there would be more reason for Microsoft to hold off on an announcement. As we have seen with Lost Odyssey and to a lesser extent Eternal Sonata, Japanese gamers are immediately discounting amazing Japanese-orientated games when they are announced 360 exclusive. However if you hype Star Ocean 4 non-stop, building up the perception in hardcore Japanese gamer's minds that it is a must have and THEN announce it for the 360, they will be more inclined to pick up the console for the game, rather than switching off.

You were right on this, but it was still flawed logic because I've seen virtually NO hype for Star Ocean 4. MS still waited to announce, so I'll give you this one.

-It must also be noted that the PS3 has shown NO ability to shift JRPG's in the West, whereas the 360 has shown some (limited) ability to do so. Much of this ridiculous idea that the PS3 can sell JRPG's right now comes from the PS2's legacy.

This is flawed logic because the PS3 didn't have any good JRPGs (or probably any at all) at that time. You can't assume on it's ability to sell JRPGs if we haven't seen it.

 

-Something about "So what if we can watch it on the PSP? I can watch it on my Zune too.

Do I have to say it? Flawed logic, you assumed just because you could watch it on the Zune SE/Tri-Ace had intention for you watching it on the Zune.

BAHAHAHA.

Please don't try to play the Star Ocean 4 card.  Dodoce was right, its exclusive.  I was half-right, its on the 360.  You got pawned buddy.

But lets not try to pretend that post had any relevance to whats been said here.  Tombi hasn't used any of my points in this thread.  He's come in and done an epic troll job with a direct attempt to imply that some theoretical made rush of (presumably) exclusive JRPG's will come flying onto the PS3 just a few months after FFXIII and the reality is it just wont happen. 

 



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starcraft said:
Lone_Canis_Lupus said:
 

If you can use flawed logic, so can he:

This all was flawed logic, but you were right (well, Dodoce was, but you used the logic as well) on pretty much all accounts except the PS3 having no ability to move JRPGs and the watching it on the Zune thing. You made a lot of assumptions in these claims. Tombi is doing the same thing. So Pot, meet kettle.


I don't claim credit for this idea, Dodoce posted it a while back but I couldn't find the thread:

-If this game was on the PS3, Sony would want us to know about it already. This holds for both PS3 exclusive and PS3/360 multiplatform. Sony is still largely trading on potential as far as games go, ESPECIALLY in Japan where sales are dismal.

If MS would wait on announcing it, why would Sony? Flawed logic.

-IF the game was on the 360, there would be more reason for Microsoft to hold off on an announcement. As we have seen with Lost Odyssey and to a lesser extent Eternal Sonata, Japanese gamers are immediately discounting amazing Japanese-orientated games when they are announced 360 exclusive. However if you hype Star Ocean 4 non-stop, building up the perception in hardcore Japanese gamer's minds that it is a must have and THEN announce it for the 360, they will be more inclined to pick up the console for the game, rather than switching off.

You were right on this, but it was still flawed logic because I've seen virtually NO hype for Star Ocean 4. MS still waited to announce, so I'll give you this one.

-It must also be noted that the PS3 has shown NO ability to shift JRPG's in the West, whereas the 360 has shown some (limited) ability to do so. Much of this ridiculous idea that the PS3 can sell JRPG's right now comes from the PS2's legacy.

This is flawed logic because the PS3 didn't have any good JRPGs (or probably any at all) at that time. You can't assume on it's ability to sell JRPGs if we haven't seen it.

 

-Something about "So what if we can watch it on the PSP? I can watch it on my Zune too.

Do I have to say it? Flawed logic, you assumed just because you could watch it on the Zune SE/Tri-Ace had intention for you watching it on the Zune.

BAHAHAHA.

Please don't try to play the Star Ocean 4 card.  Dodoce was right, its exclusive.  I was half-right, its on the 360.  You got pawned buddy.

But lets not try to pretend that post had any relevance to whats been said here.  Tombi hasn't used any of my points in this thread.  He's come in and done an epic troll job with a direct attempt to imply that some theoretical made rush of (presumably) exclusive JRPG's will come flying onto the PS3 just a few months after FFXIII and the reality is it just wont happen. 

 


 o.O Did you not see the point of that post?



PSN: Lone_Canis_Lupus

rocketpig said:
This is a ridiculous conversation. No console will have the quantity nor quality of JRPGs that the 360 enjoys until 2010 at the earliest. Even after that point, it won't be the PS3. If any console passes the 360, it will be the Wii.

You go ahead and buy on potential, I'll continue to buy systems that have games I want to play now.

Then again, I shouldn't be surprised at this topic. Tombi never says anything positive about the 360. This thread reeks of jealousy.

Rocketpig: there's no reason to be jealous.  He can buy a 360 too if he likes JRPGs.

And there's never a reason to buy on potential. You can buy if that potential is ever realized, and the system will always be cheaper. 



Okay, let's put up some facts about JRPGs:

Fact: The X360 has the biggest current lineup in quantity.

Fact:  The X360 has the biggest announced lineup in quanitity.

Fact: The X360 has the biggest number of current high quality titles.

Fact: The X360 has the biggest future number of high quality titles.

Fact: The X360 has the highest total sales of JRPGs so far this generation.

Fact: The Wii has the highest total sales of JRPGs in Japan so far this generation.

 



http://www.vgchartz.com/games/userreviewdisp.php?id=261

That is VGChartz LONGEST review. And it's NOT Cute Kitten DS

Lone_Canis_Lupus said:
 

o.O Did you not see the point of that post?

Clearly I must have missed it.  All I saw was you bringing up a thread where I maintained I was right and TURNED OUT TO BE RIGHT next to Tombi's thread where everyone has attacked him over unneccessary trolling.  They say 360 fans lost their cool after the GTAIV IGN review, and its clear June 10 rattled Tombi's head.

The only possibility I can think of is that you think we should sit around for the 2-3 years necessary to find out whether Tombi is right or not............? 

 



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TheBigFatJ said:
rocketpig said:
This is a ridiculous conversation. No console will have the quantity nor quality of JRPGs that the 360 enjoys until 2010 at the earliest. Even after that point, it won't be the PS3. If any console passes the 360, it will be the Wii.

You go ahead and buy on potential, I'll continue to buy systems that have games I want to play now.

Then again, I shouldn't be surprised at this topic. Tombi never says anything positive about the 360. This thread reeks of jealousy.

Rocketpig: there's no reason to be jealous. He can buy a 360 too if he likes JRPGs.

And there's never a reason to buy on potential. You can buy if that potential is ever realized, and the system will always be cheaper.


Exactly my point. I actually regret that I bought into this generation early (waited the longest for the 360, a year). It turns out that the console I waited the longest for is far and away my favorite. I sold my first Wii and bought in again after SMG, SSBB, Okami, Z&W, etc. were released. I really like the system now. As for the PS3, I waited four months to play Uncharted, beat it in three days, and then watched it sit again for quite some time. I wish I would have waited until the MGS4 bundle with a DS3 and game for $400.




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starcraft said:
Lone_Canis_Lupus said:
 

o.O Did you not see the point of that post?

Clearly I must have missed it.  All I saw was you bringing up a thread where I maintained I was right and TURNED OUT TO BE RIGHT next to Tombi's thread where everyone has attacked him over unneccessary trolling.  They say 360 fans lost their cool after the GTAIV IGN review, and its clear June 10 rattled Tombi's head.

The only possibility I can think of is that you think we should sit around for the 2-3 years necessary to find out whether Tombi is right or not............? 

 


 Clearly you're a retard. You never maintained you were right. All you used was very flawed logic, but yet in the end you were right. Why do you think I said "Pot, meet kettle?" You're a hypocrite is what I'm saying. I'm saying you're going to use flawed logic everywhere else yet say he can't use flawed logic...because you're the only one who can. Oh no, we'll have to wait a couple of years to see if he's right! We had to wait months to see if you were right. Those months waiting to see if you were right could have been spent on something else.

This is the real world, things take time...even in the gaming world. The point of that post was to show you that you used flawed logic but turned out to be right, and that Tombi could turn out to be right. If you can make assumptions, everybody else can. He can assume that the PS3 and Wii might play catch up later on. Either concede and say you use flawed logic and could have been wrong then, or accept Tombi could be right.



PSN: Lone_Canis_Lupus

TheBigFatJ said:
tombi123 said:
ToastyJaguar said:
tombi123 said:
So if I can only afford one console this entire generation, and I am a big JRPG fan, you would all recommend me the 360?...

yeah


Why? The Wii will have more and the PS3 has the biggest...


Is the PS3 getting Pokémon?

If you like JRPGs, then you probably want to play more than one or two.  I'm not a fan, so I haven't looked into it deeply but it looks like the Wii and 360 wil be the best consoles for JRPG fans this generation. 

Fixed

 



starcraft said:
At the end of the day, Tombi's key assumptions seem to be thus:

-Due to its massive sales, the Wii will get a tonne of quality JRPG's
-Due to FFXIII, the PS3 will get a tonne of quality JRPG's.

1) Here is the problem with one: At the very least, the bulk of those JRPG's are 18 months away, and thats if third party devs decide they can sell them on the casual wii base.

2) Here is the problem with number two: This isn't the PS2. Devs are TERRIFIED of the PS3. Its not selling hardware fast and when SRPG's come out, they bomb. If Final Fantasy XIII spurs JRPG production for the PS3, those JRPG's are up too three years away. FFXIII won't be out for a year minimum in the West (hell probably not in Japan either). Then, IF FFXIII pushes consoles to JRPG fans devs might start to make quality JRPG's for the PS3 and they will be at least two years beyond THAT.


3) Look at it this way Tombi. You can pay $350 for a Pro now and play 10 great JRPG's in the next year. If you spend $400 on a PS3 right now, you can play WKS and MAYBE FFXIII in the next year.

But if you buy the Pro and play all those other games, IF those JRPG's ever come to the PS3 (and lets face it, they won't be exclusive anyway, Microsoft's console sells enough JRPG's to warrant a quick port, even without moneyhatting) it will be when the PS3 is dirt cheap and you can pick it up on the fly.

 Those are my key assumptions. Thank you for actually answering the thread properly instead of shouting fanboy. 

I disagree slightly with the problems you stated though.  

1) So a JRPG takes 18 months to develop. But they are not 18 months away. It has been clear that the Wii will have the biggest user base in Japan for at least the last 9 months. I would think that there will be a massive amount of JRPG's announced for the Wii at E3 08 or TGS 08, for release this christmas or early next year. 

2) If by SRPG bombing you mean Disgaea 3, it has already sold roughly 70% of Disgaea 2 lifetime sales. I don't think the developers would of expected much better than that. The other SRPG, Valkyria Chronicles has already outsold Disgaea 3, so can be considered a success for a SRPG. 

My point was that if I was a JRPG developer, developing a JRPG for the PS3, I would look to release it a couple of months after FFXIII. Because FFXIII will bring a lot of JRPG fans to the PS3. I wouldn't have started development of the JRPG already.

3) If I had enough money I would buy a 360. But I only have enough money for the Wii and PS3. I chose the Wii and PS3 over the 360 because they have a lot more games coming out this generation to my tastes. I think somebody who can't afford all three consoles has to look at what is out now and what is coming out in the future, not just at what is out now. 

By the way, I don't think the JRPG situation and the end of the generation will be:

Wii>>PS3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>360

More like:

Wii>>>PS3>360 



A few questions:

Wii has through the entire generation been the lead console in Japan. The Ps3 has always been an obvious second or first (before Ps3 launch). Still, the X360 is the lead console for JRPGs, why?

Possible answer: JRPGs do no longer have a main sell-through in Japan. This means that putting it on the 360 is better than on Ps3, and fairly equal to Wii (as X360 owners buy more games).

The Ps3 games have not been launched out of Japan, while the 360 and Wii ones have. Why?

Possible answer: Developers do not have belief that low-profile Ps3 JRPGs can sell out of Japan. For 360 and Wii, they do.



http://www.vgchartz.com/games/userreviewdisp.php?id=261

That is VGChartz LONGEST review. And it's NOT Cute Kitten DS