Leg pulled and not broken. TW3 has been special to me since the week it released, it has me for a thousand hours and two thousand more watching content on it. I don't push and "pseudo RPG's" often though. 

You can check the top 50 list in my sig, I only gush about that, that is really great. I can't think of any other "questionable" RPG's though? Maybe Sekiro and Fromsoft games? but DOS 1 and 2 which are very clearly RPGs. I remember that time I went full hog on Stellar Blade here but that's a DMC/GoW style game. 

Now I wonder, if the new GoW games are RPG's or not.

Witcher 3 is a good game from my POV, it's just not very good as RPG - you're playing predefined character, with mostly predefined history, relationships, profession and with very limited moral bounds, and how you progress Geralt mechanically through the game doesn't make much difference in how he behaves and interacts with the world and world with him. Sure, you make narrative choices, but that is not exclusive to RPGs. Strip away its RPG mechanics and not much is really lost.

This is why a lot of RPG enthusiast don't consider it RPG at all. I always tend to say that for me it sits right on the fence between action-RPG and action-adventure, with very thin RPG mechanics, but fairly good narrative choices - from my POV, it's the game against which all these new breed of pseudo RPGs can be tested to decide on which side of the fence they sit at (or at least lean more toward). Though, ultimately, I think, just like there are Rouge-lites, which borrow some mechanics from Rouge, maybe it's about time for Narrative RPG-lites to get their official label. Because, if you view something like Witcher, it will always be under heavy scrutiny from strictly RPG point of view, although it's great as narrative action-adventure with some of RPG mechanics.

As for DOS 1/2, yes, they are RPGs - they're just not as good as actual macrocosmic world CRPGs (like Utlimas, Fallout 1/2, Arcanum or Age of Decadence), but pretty great as microcosmic theme park mega-dungeon crawlers (just like BG3).

P.S. As Witcher aficionado, you should really play The Dawn of Bloodwalker - looking it strictly mechanically as an action RPG it's better than Witcher 3 (though nowhere near as good as proper action RPGs), but it suffers from undercooked world and not as strong writing, areas in which Witcher 3 is really great.

I thought this on one playthrough. I have four now, the differences are profound. There are whole YouTube channels dedicated to the differences cause they are that nuanced between choices. 

I too am and was an RPG enthusiast and I thought the same my first two playthroughs bagk to back, then I decided to play completely differently my third playthrough and I was shocked by how diverse the choices are and how long in the game they span. 

And Jesus, DoS not being as good as 90's RPG's. Blasphemy. Lol. They and BG3 are way beyond anything in the 90's apart from perhaps the more dialogue heavy games but the choices were in your imagination, not in the game. These games change the actual game instead of predenting they do. 

But the above is all based on choice. By your definition Cyberpunk 2077 should be the greatest RPG of all time but it certainly doesn't feel it and it's not. 

And yes, Dawnwalker is on my list, I'm just poor atm. However, I done the same shtick in Metaphor refantazio and it did not hit. If they were to pull this off, and I'm not doubting they have, it needs to be really strict and from what I seen it is not at all. I do suspect I would love it though, despite as you mentioned the writing being lesser. 

May I ask what your favourite RPG is? And also, do you consider Skyrim an RPG?

- You are way too hung up on choices that you as a player can make, vs how your character interacts through RPG mechanics with the world and what choices he can make with them. Properly written branching visual novel has way more player choices than Witcher 3, but that does not make it an RPG. As I said, strip away all RPG mechanics from Witcher 3 and you won't loose much globally.

- No, for me DOS 1/2 (or BG3) are nowhere as good as cult classics (nor some of the new stuff) because they don't feel like worlds, but megadungeons masquerading as worlds. Good and fun megadungeon crawlers, with lot of micro interaction, but as someone who prefers playing worlds, both at the table and on computer, I don't find Larian's CRPGs nearly as compelling.

- I'm still keeping away from CP2077, so can't comment - initially I was exited when they announced it, especially since it's collaboration with author of tabletop original, but after my son played it (who knows a thing or two about RPGs, due to exposure through me) and concluded it's mostly FPS with some RPG elements - which was quite disappointing for me, given that I know the system and played it - I decided to abstain from it.  If you want to see game that is properly translated from tabletop to VG format, play VtM:Bloodlines, another cult classic among RPG connoisseurs.

- I actually don't have favourite VG RPG, there are games I love equally that do completely opposite things in different subgenres. I can tell you what I liked the most so far from this year, and that's Esoteric Ebb, great mixture of Disco Elysium and D&D.

- Skyrim is not a very good RPG, and even worse as TES game.

Let me repost this from another thread. 

Role. Playing. Game.

Role play. Do you play a role?

Do you have agency in how to build that role?

Do you have choices within the role?

Can you effect the world or characters/story with those choices?

Do you have freedom to make that role harder or easier?

Do you have choice in both above or other areas?

...If so, it's a role playing game

And here is, in the nutshell, what I use:

"A Role-Playing Game is a game in which the player assumes the role of a character within a fictional world, and the game's rules and systems make that character's identity, capabilities, decisions and relationships consequential to how the player can interact with the world and how the world responds."

By either definition, TW3 has RPG elements, and by either definition it's fairly low on RPG scale. If you can't see that, then sorry mate, not sure what to tell you, except to play more RPGs that are very high on RPG scale.

Only thing that makes an RPG is character creator, hence the role playing aspect. Witcher 3 is basically CPG or a Cosplaying Game.

This cracked me up. Cosplaying is what many of this narrative RPGs are more akin to...though not entirely.

First ever RPG (to be documented) is David Wesley's Braunstein. In it you were given a character and a role, but it was up to you to go on and play that role pretty much however you like - there was very little mechanics in that one, but there was a referee, so more of a proto-RPG.

Dave Arneson et al. saw this, and went on to incorporate it with war gaming rules and started Castle Blackmoor campaign, which is basically D&D Ground Zero, and then went on to show that to Gary Gygax (they used his Chainmail for one part of rules), who codified whole ruleset and commercialized it, thus giving us D&D we know (well at least some of us, lot of folks know only WotC's D&D (3e and later), and not TSR's).

What I'm saying is premade characters are not fundamentally against RPGs, though they're quite scoffed at (with valid reasons).

But...there's fundamentally only one rule that matters in RPGs, that really makes them RPGs - you describe what you're doing, and GM adjudicates what happens using rules and systems of the game and world you're playing in. This rules and systems parts is what people keep forgetting. In video games this is code (still preprogrammed and fixed, unfortunately, but not for long).

In TW3, Geralt is not only premade character, but unlike games like Gothic or KCD where you get a bloke to play, but then you're free to evolve him however you like, Gerlat is pretty much fixed in most aspects, with very narrow possibilities of what he can do and what he is. This makes him great for writing and as protagonist for great adventure, but not so much for actual systemic role playing.

I can't go as far as saying he is completely adventure character, since there is some progression and interaction between systems and world, but for the most part this is very unimportant to overall interactions and choices, and if stripped of those rules and systems not much would change in the game. Hence why I would rate TW3 quite low on scale of RPG-ness (maybe 3/10, at best), but I still don't consider it as just an action-adventure.

P.S.

Actual Witcher RPG exists - tabletop, that is - it's based on Cyberpunks 2020 engine and it has all the stuff and plays as you would expect for RPG to play, with professions, races, attributes, skills and all the familiar stuff to anyone who ever played D&D, Runequest, GURPS or anything similar. That would be something I would love to see being made as VG RPG...though not necessarily by CDPR.

Just finished Blood and Wine. I don't know what to do with myself. Instant depressing feeling but I suppose I could follow up on some Trophies and there is a good dozen or so quests to finish. Might track down the Griffen gear for it's OPness for Songs of the Past.