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Forums - Politics Discussion - Concord is Sony's biggest failure in gaming history.

epicurean 3 days ago
the-pi-guy said:
epicurean said:

Didnt the guy from IGN Italy literally say the character didn't look anything like a real woman? And the guy from digital foundry said she looked unrealistic? I never actually heard people complaining about the outfits, thought I suspect they did. But I think to say people weren't complaining about how she looked is not accurate. This is really the only forum I get on (I read comments on IGN and PushSquare I guess) so I'm probably not a great witness to the larger audience.

I hadn't seen these comments beforehand. 

It was apparently Eurogamer, not Digital Foundry. 

This gets to what I saying in the last sentence in my post above though. Is it a common issue? Or is it just a few cherry picked people expressing it? 

Like I said before, you can find someone saying literally anything. That doesn't mean those are widely expressed views. 

And vice versa. The fact that I haven't seen people/have seen very few people make those complaints also doesn't mean it's not a common complaint people have. It's just not my understanding of the issue at hand here. 

We are all in our own bubbles. Its pretty easy for stuff to be missed and it's also pretty easy for misunderstandings to happen. 

I do try to get out of my bubble, and check to see what r/conservative and other conservatives groups think of things. And sometimes it seems like they make a big deal out of things I don't think are important, or they have a wildly different interpretation of what something meant. (Like how someone could argue that "eat the rich" literally means they want to eat Bill Gates and co. Even though the vast majority of left wingers would understand that it's not literal). 

I dont go anywhere on reddit, and recently made a list of things to do to hopefully make myself "happier". One was less politics, and one was more video games (which is why i've been posting again). 

Anyway, the comments by the IGN Italy guy saying the model wasn't realistic, followed by the backlash that it WAS a real woman was the loudest conversation I heard about the game. Hard to believe you never heard that if you follow gaming, but I'll take your word for it. Maybe it was only on X/Twitter and gaming website comments you dont read. It was everywhere I looked though. I think the model even had to turn off her instagram or X or something? Impacted her somehow I think.

Wish they would've put as much attention to her personality in the game to how she looked, otherwise the game was pretty decent.



Owner of PS4 Pro, Xbox One, Switch, PS Vita, and 3DS

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the-pi-guy 3 days ago
epicurean said:

I dont go anywhere on reddit, and recently made a list of things to do to hopefully make myself "happier". One was less politics, and one was more video games (which is why i've been posting again). 

Anyway, the comments by the IGN Italy guy saying the model wasn't realistic, followed by the backlash that it WAS a real woman was the loudest conversation I heard about the game. Hard to believe you never heard that if you follow gaming, but I'll take your word for it. Maybe it was only on X/Twitter and gaming website comments you dont read. It was everywhere I looked though. I think the model even had to turn off her instagram or X or something? Impacted her somehow I think.

Wish they would've put as much attention to her personality in the game to how she looked, otherwise the game was pretty decent.

IGN France*

epicurean said:

Anyway, the comments by the IGN Italy guy saying the model wasn't realistic, followed by the backlash that it WAS a real woman was the loudest conversation I heard about the game. Hard to believe you never heard that if you follow gaming, but I'll take your word for it. Maybe it was only on X/Twitter and gaming website comments you dont read. It was everywhere I looked though. I think the model even had to turn off her instagram or X or something? Impacted her somehow I think.

Because people tend to live in bubbles.

People don't just talk about things in different ways, they frequently talk about completely different things. 

I'm looking at ResetEra right now, searching some of the biggest Stellar Blade threads, I don't see the comment being shared. There's like 4 posts vaguely talking about an article that IGN France wrote. 

Or on a different subject, I just looked at r/KotakuInAction, and just found out that Max is putting out a Velma Halloween special. I haven't even seen the ScoobyDoo subreddit talk about a Velma special. If Velma wasn't a dumpster fire, that would have been big news for that sub. But I haven't seen anyone talk about it. 

It's a common problem, a lot of big news in conservatives cycles does not even exist in liberal circles; and vice versa. It's a big reason why I get involved in these kinds of conversations. 



haxxiy 3 days ago
epicurean said:

Anyway, the comments by the IGN Italy guy saying the model wasn't realistic, followed by the backlash that it WAS a real woman was the loudest conversation I heard about the game. Hard to believe you never heard that if you follow gaming, but I'll take your word for it. Maybe it was only on X/Twitter and gaming website comments you dont read. It was everywhere I looked though. I think the model even had to turn off her instagram or X or something? Impacted her somehow I think.

Eve has several in-game body models depending on the outfit.

Some are a close match to Shin Jae-eun's body proportions, some are a bit... souped-up.



 

 

 

 

 

pokoko 3 days ago
the-pi-guy said:
pokoko said:

You might want to put a trigger warning on that before someone gets upset.

The funny thing is, there are now SO MANY power fantasy novels written by female authors out there now and the main characters are almost always hot, as well as being "badass".  I think it's clear that many females enjoy visualizing themselves as attractive and powerful, just like males.

What's the problem, then?  Why the war on attractive female characters?

There is an old article posted on one of the usual suspects (IGN, Polygon, etc.) where the writer was talking about how much she loved playing a beautiful, sexy and powerful character like Bayonetta .... UNTIL she realizes that guys are enjoying the character, too.  THAT made her angry and turned her against the last game.  The entitlement of her outlook was breathtaking to read about, especially since it was all in her own head.

I think that mentality has a lot to do with the situation.

You do pretty much the same thing as me here. This comment is not directed at Curl, you're obviously not asking him why there's a "war on attractive female characters".

Curl didn't say anything about Bayonetta. So why do you get off on bringing up unrelated subjects?

You don't think Bayonetta is relevant when the topic is about attractive female characters?  Okay, whatever you say.

epicurean said:

I dont go anywhere on reddit, and recently made a list of things to do to hopefully make myself "happier". One was less politics, and one was more video games (which is why i've been posting again). 

Anyway, the comments by the IGN Italy guy saying the model wasn't realistic, followed by the backlash that it WAS a real woman was the loudest conversation I heard about the game. Hard to believe you never heard that if you follow gaming, but I'll take your word for it. Maybe it was only on X/Twitter and gaming website comments you dont read. It was everywhere I looked though. I think the model even had to turn off her instagram or X or something? Impacted her somehow I think.

Wish they would've put as much attention to her personality in the game to how she looked, otherwise the game was pretty decent.

I've heard that people started insulting the model, which is crazy.  I personally remember comments about plastic surgery and how she didn't look human and some about her being too skinny.  I don't know if people directed those at her on social media but it wouldn't surprise me at all.



JuliusHackebeil 3 days ago

It is a bit of a cliché that only evil characters are allowed to look ugly and good characters have to look good as well. From the top of my head, I cannot think of a game where the good guys were ugly and the bad guys were beautiful. Only Gaston from Beauty and the Beast comes to mind. But I would have to think there are at least some others. But recently quite some ugly women joined the list.

And here is something I don't have any proof of: console and pc gaming is heavily dominated by men for most games. And most men are in my camp: like to look at and play beautiful people, especially liking to look at beautiful women. And there are a few curious things happening from my perspective:

1) The uglification is not that widespread, but it effects women more so than men. As far as I can tell, men are looking more feminine and women, in roles typically reserved for beautiful people, are looking uglier. Even with downgrades like Horizon, Uncharted and Spider Man (with that last one having Peter (who received an upgrade), Miles and Harry looking like models and MJ like, well, ugly).
2) Men complain more about ugly women, women complain more about beautiful women. And not many give a crap about men looking good or not.
3) There is something strangely puritanical about this female/feminist drive to be against men looking at beautiful women. I assume this is rooted in jealousy coupled with the unwillingness to shave some armpits.
4) Criticism from people demanding a wider variety of looks (adding ugly) is taken seriously. But criticism from people who hate that and would want to play beautiful people is not taken seriously. Perhaps because there are many more options for the beauty-camp than for the ugly-camp.

Concorde had different bigger problems, but I must believe that making the women in there more beautiful would have helped at least somewhat.



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epicurean 2 days ago
haxxiy said:
epicurean said:

Anyway, the comments by the IGN Italy guy saying the model wasn't realistic, followed by the backlash that it WAS a real woman was the loudest conversation I heard about the game. Hard to believe you never heard that if you follow gaming, but I'll take your word for it. Maybe it was only on X/Twitter and gaming website comments you dont read. It was everywhere I looked though. I think the model even had to turn off her instagram or X or something? Impacted her somehow I think.

Eve has several in-game body models depending on the outfit.

Some are a close match to Shin Jae-eun's body proportions, some are a bit... souped-up.

I can't imagine they changed the character model based on the outfit. That would be an insane amount of extra work. Though they may have added "padding" or things of that nature to the outfits to make her model look different in those outfits.



Owner of PS4 Pro, Xbox One, Switch, PS Vita, and 3DS

haxxiy 2 days ago
epicurean said:

I can't imagine they changed the character model based on the outfit. That would be an insane amount of extra work. Though they may have added "padding" or things of that nature to the outfits to make her model look different in those outfits.

It's a simple matter of polygon editing, which is built in in UE. The skeletal meshes and animations are the same so no extra blueprint logic is needed:

Last edited by haxxiy - 2 days ago

 

 

 

 

 

EricHiggin 5 hours ago
pokoko said:
the-pi-guy said:

I apologized for being exhausted for writing a post where I gave an inappropriate comparison. 

A "whataboutism" has nothing to do with "changing the subject".  Is that seriously what you think that word means? 

A whataboutism is where you basically respond to an accusation, with another accusation. 

For example: 

A: "Donald Trump raped someone"
B: "Yeah what about the time Joe Biden sniffed someone's hair".

It's a whataboutism, because you're completely deflecting criticism instead of addressing anything. Person A has done nothing to address the point about Donald Trump being a rapist. If person A had thrown out some reasonable doubt about Trump being rapist, before bringing up Joe Biden, that wouldn't be a whataboutism anymore. 

Do you feel that I'm not addressing your points? I'm certain you disagree with a lot of my points, am I deflecting away from your points?

pokoko said:

What I said had absolutely nothing to do with Assassin's Creed but that's where you wanted to take this. 

I was not talking about Assassin's Creed. You're literally the one that brought up Assassin's Creed.
I actually had Battlefield in mind, when I brought up historical accuracy. 

If bringing up other topics is dishonest in itself, then most people here are being dishonest and trying to win imaginary points. 

That's what the whole conversation about ugly western video game characters is. We've gone to a different topic much broader than the one that we started from (talking about Concord failing).

pokoko said:

As for the first part, maybe you're right and this isn't a particular path developers are taking.  Only time can answer that question. However, there is no technical reason that I can see that characters in western videogames should get less attractive--and yes, we're talking about videogames, OF COURSE we're talking about technology--unless it's by design.

Well yes, but it is not driven by technology. 

These are artistic choices being made, and there are tons of valid reasons for it. 

I haven't seen this. On ResetEra and Reddit, I mostly saw people talk about her being overly sexualized.

Is there a particular website/thread where you saw someone talk about "unrealistic beauty standards"? 

And is it a common issue you've seen expressed? People are going to say anything about anything, that doesn't mean those are widespread enough to be worth talking about. I'm sure I could find someone somewhere complaining that Eve is too ugly. That doesn't mean it's a common opinion.

Oh, Battlefield!  Yeah, Battlefield, THAT'S what we were talking about, wasn't it?  Yeah ... no.  We weren't talking about Battlefield at all.  Were we?  Do you remember us talking about Battlefield?  No, seriously, were we talking about Battlefield AT ALL?  Nah.  Then why did you bring it up?  What did it have to do with the conversation?  Go ahead, I want to hear about it. 

And, yes, I've seen people talk about unrealistic beauty standards for Stellar Blade, though, amusingly enough, those comments stopped after IGN France had to apologize and it was revealed that Eve was based on a real model.

"PLEASE don't support Stellar Blade.

The game is an insult to women and feminism, setting unrealistic beauty standards that we as a society should not encourage."

"The game's creator adds to this by expressing his desire to see characters much more beautiful than himself in video games, reinforcing sexist stereotypes and unrealistic beauty standards."

And there you are being dishonest again.  I talk about how you QUOTE people then change the subject but of course you leave out where I said "quote" and pretend that I'm talking about people bringing up different topics in the thread at large.  Bloody hell.  Stop it.

Who in their right mind would do something unrealistic in a video game? Like seriously, get with the programming...