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Forums - Politics Discussion - 2024 US Presidential Election

Trump winning is the perfect example of Carlo M. Cipolla third law of the five basic laws of human stupidity. A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.



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I guess my point of view is a bit different in the sense that I don’t mind voters being called idiots just like I don’t mind being called an idiot. That’s never going to put me off changing my mind about things, personally.

However, how is this groundbreaking news to anybody? Most people are religious, most people don’t make proper choices even when provided with all the information they need, most people look for easy answers.

Truth matters less than perception. Where is the news?

Non of this justifies Biden’s major fuck ups and how he put himself ahead of the party repeatedly. I rarely blame others for things what shape my life takes and my first instinct is to ask what could I have done differently. Seemingly, a question too hard to ask for the dems party to ask themselves after 3 embarrassing rounds against a clown. If you don't know your base, maybe you are an idiot as well?



bdbdbd said:
Mnementh said:

And yet... working class peoples lives got worse during the Biden administration while rich people got richer.

And yet... if asked (which AOC did) many people say working class problems.

You and many of the more wealthy middle class are fine with what Biden/Harris did. Many people are not, they are angry and feels like the Democrats act like their worries don't matter. That is the result that can be seen. Now you can deny it or you can ask why. You seem to invest all your energy on denial.

I wasn't very active in the thread, because I had over the last elections mostly lost the belief that the Democrats can tackle real issues. In the last elections Sanders did run in the primaries and brought on a lot of these issues. The big loss this time may have been a chance that the Democrats wake up and listen to the poorer, less educated, working class people. But you and others here keep convincing me that the Democrats aren't willing to change, to not even see any reason to do so. I don't think they will do much better in the future given this. I also don't think this will work out in Austria either, have fun with the FPÖ.

The democrats in the US did move to the right over the years, allowing the Republicans to go even more extreme right. If the democrats are not willing to change course, I believe we need a new real left movement. And not only in the US, europe sees similar problems with many establishment parties moving away from left positions while at the same time this gives room to fascist movements: Le Pen, AfD, FPÖ, Orban, PiS. I believe the antidote is bringing back real leftist movements with strong social and economic left policies. But most parties are afraid to piss off major companies and rich people, and yes, that includes the Democrats in the US. But that will be needed in my opinion.

As a leftist it is frustrating to discuss online. Issues and problems of people are denied. And you get accused of supporting the right, as you tried in the last post. So yeah, use the loss as a chance to reform or don't do anything and blame the voters.

I think people are mostly ignoring the big picture. Democrats are the middle class party and, as you noted, have taken a step to the right, so they¨re pretty much your typical European right wing party. Because US does not have a left wing party in the federal elections that would be a working class or lower classes party, it turns out that Republicans are at least giving an opportunity for the poor who can't do much worse, that the Democrats don't. As the low wage industrial jobs have gone abroad, especially the regions with lots of Africans have suffered from globalism.

I guess you have no clue about the Republican's.  In the US the Republican's aren't for the working class or the poor and haven't been for them for a long time. They are anti-union, against worker's rights, against overtime pay, against a rise in the minimum wage, against a living wage, and they are for low wages, child labor, and exploiting the working class to make the rich richer.  The poor and working class have been screwed over by Republican's for over 40 years and counting.  It all started when Reagan implemented neoliberal policies during his first term.



These appointees.... Israel have their fists up Trump's bum. 



Chris Hu said:
bdbdbd said:

I think people are mostly ignoring the big picture. Democrats are the middle class party and, as you noted, have taken a step to the right, so they¨re pretty much your typical European right wing party. Because US does not have a left wing party in the federal elections that would be a working class or lower classes party, it turns out that Republicans are at least giving an opportunity for the poor who can't do much worse, that the Democrats don't. As the low wage industrial jobs have gone abroad, especially the regions with lots of Africans have suffered from globalism.

I guess you have no clue about the Republican's.  In the US the Republican's aren't for the working class or the poor and haven't been for them for a long time. They are anti-union, against worker's rights, against overtime pay, against a rise in the minimum wage, against a living wage, and they are for low wages, child labor, and exploiting the working class to make the rich richer.  The poor and working class have been screwed over by Republican's for over 40 years and counting.  It all started when Reagan implemented neoliberal policies during his first term.

Could be. Most what I know is what I read from media around here and what people write in the internet. What the media writes a lot is about the Mexican border and preventing immigrants from coming and deporting illegal immigrants. Then about industrial jobs coming back to US. In EU, the right wing tries to import immigrants to lower wages and trade with China etc. for cheap goods. If you wan people to have jobs, you need to stop the cheap labour from coming. If you¨re poor, you can improve your situation by getting a job or getting a better wage. Wages aren't going up as long as there's cheap labour coming from abroad.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

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curl-6 said:
Chris Hu said:

The left did not lose.  The left has little to no power in the US.  The center right (Democrats) lost to the far right (Republicans). Since both parties shifted rightward since Reagan's first term.

Sorry but to say the left has no power is nonsense.

Over the last 8-9 years, the activist left has infiltrated and captured countless institutions across the Western world, from big tech to academia to education to media outlets, and used them to force their ideology on others and punish anyone who resists. Countless people have been harassed, excluded, censored, threatened, even fired from their jobs for not conforming to the beliefs of the left.

I'm left leaning on most issues and I've literally been sent death threats for being not left enough, it's unconscionable and people are sick of it.

I think you are confusing liberal elites with actual lefties.  When it comes to elites both on the liberal and even more so on the conservative side, I agree they have a ton of power.





bdbdbd said:
Chris Hu said:

I guess you have no clue about the Republican's.  In the US the Republican's aren't for the working class or the poor and haven't been for them for a long time. They are anti-union, against worker's rights, against overtime pay, against a rise in the minimum wage, against a living wage, and they are for low wages, child labor, and exploiting the working class to make the rich richer.  The poor and working class have been screwed over by Republican's for over 40 years and counting.  It all started when Reagan implemented neoliberal policies during his first term.

Could be. Most what I know is what I read from media around here and what people write in the internet. What the media writes a lot is about the Mexican border and preventing immigrants from coming and deporting illegal immigrants. Then about industrial jobs coming back to US. In EU, the right wing tries to import immigrants to lower wages and trade with China etc. for cheap goods. If you wan people to have jobs, you need to stop the cheap labour from coming. If you¨re poor, you can improve your situation by getting a job or getting a better wage. Wages aren't going up as long as there's cheap labour coming from abroad.

But wages are going up and people are largely employed?



GOP wins the House, giving them the Trifecta of Presidency, House, and Senate for a unified Republican government:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2n9g21xqyo



Farsala said:

I wanted to point out another weakness of the Harris Campaign.

One of Biden's big talking points was the cancellation of student loan debt. I think many younger people were mobilized and ended up voting for something that would actually affect them personally. Biden ended up failing to uphold his promise for mass cancellation of the student loan debt. Harris couldn't talk about it, and didn't have a talking point nearly as strong as that. Not only was trust in a democrat president eroded, but also trust in any president since the Republicans were clearly against the cancelling of student loan debt. Thus, turnout ended up worse.

I think the next candidate needs to come up with another impossible promise like that to get turnout to be as great as it was in 2020.

Biden did a lot to tackle the student loan debt crisis. He canceled more student debt than any other president. The issue was that his most ambitious plans were blocked or held up by the courts in cases brought against the administration by Republican led states.

Biden's actions were so dramatic that many in the GOP including Trump accused him of trying to buy votes by cutting student loan debt.

The Republicans effectively turned it into a losing issue for Dems, as it was seen as helping mostly liberal elites with liberal arts educations and the like rather than people who did not go to college or already paid off their loans. Cutting student loan debt was seen as inflationary yet its somehow perfectly okay to give tax breaks to the wealthy and corporations.



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