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Forums - Politics Discussion - 2024 US Presidential Election

LegitHyperbole said:
the-pi-guy said:

Yes and no.

Yes: people inherently have all kinds of biases.

Implicit bias means we're all probably at least a little bit racist

The difference is, that left wingers want to tackle that issue, and right wingers frequently celebrate it as an issue. 

But also no.

These are culturally driven issues, they aren't inherent to who we are as people. 

Plenty of women have biases against other women, absolutely. 

Tribalism is not racism. We are inherently drawn to tribes and those tribes sometimes are defined by race but no, people who aren't racist aren't racist and if racism is defined by tribalism it looses all meaning as a word and real racism is diminished.

Start to think like that and you end up at critical race theory, a horribly racist, division causing load of nonsense. 

Let me guess you have actually no clue what Critical Race Theory is like most people that criticize it.  If it's a load of nonsense, then please explain colonialism, Jim Crow law's, segregation, lynchings, redlining, etc. etc.  



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Mnementh said:
curl-6 said:

Bernie and Democrat Rep Seth Moulton give their two cents on their party's defeat

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-response-presidential-election/story?id=115582079

https://www.wgbh.org/news/politics/2024-11-08/rep-seth-moulton-says-being-out-of-touch-lost-democrats-the-election

Sanders: [It] "should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them."

Yep. That's it. For years the left as a movement (not the democratic party alone) has messaged they don't want and don't need the working class. Even though democrats have consistently the better policies for working class people, but they seem to be ashamed about it.

What is happening that the wealthier, well educated left is hyperfocusing on identity politics (and the right is gladly playing their game as they realize it is beneficial to them). But the real conflict in the world is a class conflict. White and black people, gay and straight are all exploited as workers by Amazon and Walmart and so on. The educated left keeps separating people into smaller and smaller compartments and explains they are at odds, while the workers don't care which skin color their coworker has, they care about both getting paid better and more vacation days. Focus on that.

You must be following a bunch of people that pretend to be left.  Most of the left and left leaning people I follow are for the working class and from the working class.



Chris Hu said:
Mnementh said:

Sanders: [It] "should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them."

Yep. That's it. For years the left as a movement (not the democratic party alone) has messaged they don't want and don't need the working class. Even though democrats have consistently the better policies for working class people, but they seem to be ashamed about it.

What is happening that the wealthier, well educated left is hyperfocusing on identity politics (and the right is gladly playing their game as they realize it is beneficial to them). But the real conflict in the world is a class conflict. White and black people, gay and straight are all exploited as workers by Amazon and Walmart and so on. The educated left keeps separating people into smaller and smaller compartments and explains they are at odds, while the workers don't care which skin color their coworker has, they care about both getting paid better and more vacation days. Focus on that.

You must be following a bunch of people that pretend to be left.  Most of the left and left leaning people I follow are for the working class and from the working class.

LOL. Yes, declare what you decide are left people and who not. And apparently according to you democrats are a bunch of people pretending to be left. If we are defining left as caring about working class, then the democrats aren't left and a left does not effectively exist in the US. In that case replace left with liberals or whatever you deem the right term.

Last edited by Mnementh - 4 days ago

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EpicRandy said:
LurkerJ said:

Nancy Pelosi says Biden’s delay in exiting race blew Democrats’ chances

[...]

Looking back I think what killed democrats' chances was Joe Manchin & Kyrsten Sinema preventing democrats from enacting popular legislation early on. Those 2 abused the fact Dems had a very narrow majority in the Senate and made the Democrats into the "do-nothings democrats" Trump was claiming earlier, both making Democrats unpopular and giving credibility back to Trump and Republicans after January 6. 

Joe Machin especially was claiming "We can't do away with filibuster because if we do then Republicans will also do it". yeah right -_- like anybody is believing Republicans will take the high road and work with a filibuster in place. They'll remove at first opportunities.

There were ways to circumvent these two and do more, I am not mentally equipped to explain this myself now as it's been long time. I will dig up the articles regarding this (or not, I will see how motivated I am later, I am just BLEH about it all now).

This is the dems need to work on, it's almost as if they're too happy to ditch progressive policies. 



Mnementh said:
Chris Hu said:

You must be following a bunch of people that pretend to be left.  Most of the left and left leaning people I follow are for the working class and from the working class.

LOL. Yes, declare what you decide are left people and who not. And apparently according to you democrats are a bunch of people pretending to be left. If we are defining left as caring about working class, then the democrats aren't left and a left does not effectively exist in the US. In that case replace left with liberals or whatever you deem the right term.

Well, both the Democrats and Republicans have shifted further to the right so politically speaking the left doesn't really exist in the US anymore not on a national level anyway. 



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Chris Hu said:
Mnementh said:

LOL. Yes, declare what you decide are left people and who not. And apparently according to you democrats are a bunch of people pretending to be left. If we are defining left as caring about working class, then the democrats aren't left and a left does not effectively exist in the US. In that case replace left with liberals or whatever you deem the right term.

Well, both the Democrats and Republicans have shifted further to the right so politically speaking the left doesn't really exist in the US anymore not on a national level anyway. 

Yep, pretty much. This is a chart I made a few years ago, and it still pretty much applies. 

The Democratic Party is mostly a centrist party, especially on economics. Maybe less so on cultural issues. 



Chris Hu said:
Mnementh said:

LOL. Yes, declare what you decide are left people and who not. And apparently according to you democrats are a bunch of people pretending to be left. If we are defining left as caring about working class, then the democrats aren't left and a left does not effectively exist in the US. In that case replace left with liberals or whatever you deem the right term.

Well, both the Democrats and Republicans have shifted further to the right so politically speaking the left doesn't really exist in the US anymore not on a national level anyway. 

How has the right shifted, exactly?

More importantly, how the HELL have the left shifted right?  On a national level, the democratic candidate hinged her entire campaign on abortion and LGBT.



"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"

IkePoR said:
Chris Hu said:

Well, both the Democrats and Republicans have shifted further to the right so politically speaking the left doesn't really exist in the US anymore not on a national level anyway. 

How has the right shifted, exactly?

More importantly, how the HELL have the left shifted right?  On a national level, the democratic candidate hinged her entire campaign on abortion and LGBT.

On economics it is certainly true. The Democratic Party (pre-Reagan) used to be a coalition of FDR-esque urban social liberals and rural left-populists in the vein of the Farmer-Labor Party. 

Now it is a coalition of Conservative Liberals (starting from Bill Clinton but completed with the fleeing of Bush Republicans, aka "Never Trumpers"), Social Liberals (Elizabeth Warren/Kamala Harris), with a third Social Democratic wing (AOC/Sanders), but the social democratic wing is treated like a minor partner and marginalized, and is much less left-wing than the older left-populists used to be. 

Last edited by sc94597 - 4 days ago

BFR said:

Trans men should not be playing in women's sports. It is that simple.

Agreed. Trans Women should be able to play in women's sports.



Chris Hu said:
Mnementh said:

LOL. Yes, declare what you decide are left people and who not. And apparently according to you democrats are a bunch of people pretending to be left. If we are defining left as caring about working class, then the democrats aren't left and a left does not effectively exist in the US. In that case replace left with liberals or whatever you deem the right term.

Well, both the Democrats and Republicans have shifted further to the right so politically speaking the left doesn't really exist in the US anymore not on a national level anyway. 

OK, I can agree with that. Then we should take Sanders and Moultons remarks as a reminder to shift back left by caring about the working class and poor people.



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