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Forums - Gaming Discussion - How far away are we from seeing games like Horizon: Zero Dawn and Spiderman 2018 on Switch/Switch 2?

Pemalite said:
Soundwave said:

System RAM is an outlier because it's not Video RAM, how many people have 8GB or less of VRAM on their GPUs ... probably a shit ton. It means the Switch 2 for example has more usable video RAM than many of the more popular video cards on Steam. 

My point is equating PC all to high end users is simply false, a big chunk of PC rigs are on the lower end. The no.2 GPU on Steam is the GTX 1650, lol that's not even an RTX capable card, the no.1 is the 3060, not exactly bleeding edge. 

Mate. Consoles don't.. Or rather cannot use all of it's Ram as video Ram, there won't be anything left for game logic.
So your argument there is silly and redundant.

However 61.37% of PC gamers have 8GB of VRAM or more... And if you include 6GB GPU's like the Geforce 3060... It's at 75.53%.

A 6GB 3060 is going to provide better performance and image quality than the Switch 2, simply no argument you can formulate will change that intrinsic fact.

One other aspect is that the VRAM on a GPU does not replace system Ram, it's in-addition. That-is, GPU's constantly stream data from System Ram to the GPU as it's much much much faster than an SSD or HDD.

Fact is, the 3060 as you put it... Is not bleeding edge, but it will beat the Switch 2.0. And will beat a Playstation 5 and Xbox Series X and will come out significantly ahead once you start using DLSS/Frame Gen. That is the sad reality of it.

...And the irony is, the 3060 released 3 years ago and will still be better than the unreleased next-gen Switch.

I don't think Nintendo really gives a shit about any of that, they're a multi billion dollar brand that's about to outsell the PS2 for all time best console, are taking over Hollywood, and have multiple massive theme parks that attract tourists from all over the globe. The hardware philosophy for the Switch seems to be reasonably spec-ed hardware for not a budget price per se, but not a ridiculous price point either and a sane business model. Which is more akin to the NES/SNES/N64/GCN era. 

All I'm saying though is going by Steam's own hardware rankings, most of the top GPUs on Steam are indeed 6-8GB cards. On top of that you have the XBox Series S which virtually every major game is still supporting, even things like GTA6, so that is a max of 8GB RAM total (for VRAM and anything else). Developers are going to have to make sure their games work on that much RAM. 

Them's just the facts. Ain't no one out here trying to make a $150-$300 million dollar game for 1% of the market that has 40 series cards (which sold poorly, looks like the COVID surge for PC GPUs and Crypto bros that were buying those higher end cards have started to "nope" out). A 3050 is plenty to run any kind of game that would bankrupt any studio if it doesn't sell big, the tech stopped being the bottleneck ages ago. 

Like I've said many times "tech bros" are a tiny niche audience that don't even show up most of the time for "graphics showcase!" games or they are showing up but the number of them are pathetically small. Looking at the sales of games like Senua's Saga HB2, Immortals Aveum, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Alan Wake II, etc. etc. these games are not bringing in big audiences at all. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 09 June 2024

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Soundwave said:

I don't think Nintendo really gives a shit about any of that, they're a multi billion dollar brand that's about to outsell the PS2 for all time best console, are taking over Hollywood, and have multiple massive theme parks that attract tourists from all over the globe.

I never said Nintendo cared/didn't care about anything in my previous post.

But apparently you care.

Soundwave said:

The hardware philosophy for the Switch seems to be reasonably spec-ed hardware for not a budget price per se, but not a ridiculous price point either and a sane business model. Which is more akin to the NES/SNES/N64/GCN era. 

It's low-end. It's mobile. It's portable.
And it's okay at being that, because outside of the PC space, no one else really is.

Soundwave said:

All I'm saying though is going by Steam's own hardware rankings, most of the top GPUs on Steam are indeed 6-8GB cards. On top of that you have the XBox Series S which virtually every major game is still supporting, even things like GTA6, so that is a max of 8GB RAM total (for VRAM and anything else). Developers are going to have to make sure their games work on that much RAM. 

Those 6-8GB cards are still better than the consoles. That's all I am saying.

And 6-8GB isn't the start or end of the memory available on PC... Because again, data gets streamed from System memory extremely rapidly.

There is a very good reason why the PC uses a hierarchy of memory pools ranging from slowest+largest to fastest+smallest. - It's not unheard of for PC games to fill up the memory buffer on the GPU and have another 8GB+ waiting to be streamed in on a per-needs basis... In-fact, that's what they have literally been doing for the last 40 years.

PC is a memory rich environment, consoles are not.

Soundwave said:

Them's just the facts. Ain't no one out here trying to make a $150-$300 million dollar game for 1% of the market that has 40 series cards (which sold poorly, looks like the COVID surge for PC GPUs and Crypto bros that were buying those higher end cards have started to "nope" out). A 3050 is plenty to run any kind of game that would bankrupt any studio if it doesn't sell big, the tech stopped being the bottleneck ages ago. 

Again.. And I provided evidence for this previously, the majority of PC's exceed the console hardware specifications. PC can access higher settings, it doesn't actually need games designed strictly for the hardware when every single game released looks and runs far better than the console release.

It's like comparing DVD to Blu-Ray, it's the same movie, but DVD looks poor by comparison next to a Blu-Ray.

Soundwave said:

Like I've said many times "tech bros" are a tiny niche audience that don't even show up most of the time for "graphics showcase!" games or they are showing up but the number of them are pathetically small. Looking at the sales of games like Senua's Saga HB2, Immortals Aveum, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Alan Wake II, etc. etc. these games are not bringing in big audiences at all. 

Majority of PC's beat the consoles, majority of PC's have visuals that beat the consoles.

Those are the facts and I have provided evidence for that.

Stop trying to argue against something you can't argue against. Facts are facts buddy, you do need to come to terms with that instead of trying to shift the goal post which you are notorious for doing.




--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Soundwave said:
zeldaring said:

I don't think it's all about games it's about games, advertisement and brand power. Nintendo games could not save N64, GC and wiiu, yet there handhelds never fail. Playstation has brand power in the home console space their worst selling console is 90 million and even though Xbox is doing everything they can and have all the games you talk about everyone is buying Playstation 5.

For 3rd party IP like Fifa/FC, NBA2K, Fortnite, Madden NFL, Call of Duty, GTA, sure. Sony/MS' own games don't matter that much. 

GameCube and Wii U were also frankly under different Nintendo management and under very different market conditions that have changed considerably by today. 

The market is frankly simply more amenable to Nintendo today, a lot of the "I'm too cool for Nintendo" bros grew up and realized they were being stupid and have come around to buying Nintendo hardware again realizing childhood is meant to be fun and they want to have that experience for their own kids. Popular culture has mellowed out in general, no one cares what music you listen to or which clothing brands you wear, the hyper try hard-ness of the 90s/2000s has come and gone. 

A console like the GameCube today IMO would perform a lot better, 20 years ago I remember people laughed at something like Animal Crossing whereas today that's suddenly "cool" and being talked about on talk shows and Tiktoks and Youtube influencers love it. 

You forgetting that Nintendo handhelds have always sold amazing even  to this day most adults I know don't care for the Switch. Even my 2 nephews that owned one have switched to PC gaming and now no longer care for the next switch it's gonna be very intersing to see how switch 2 does I think it does 90-100 million only.



Pemalite said:
Soundwave said:

I don't think Nintendo really gives a shit about any of that, they're a multi billion dollar brand that's about to outsell the PS2 for all time best console, are taking over Hollywood, and have multiple massive theme parks that attract tourists from all over the globe.

I never said Nintendo cared/didn't care about anything in my previous post.

But apparently you care.

Soundwave said:

The hardware philosophy for the Switch seems to be reasonably spec-ed hardware for not a budget price per se, but not a ridiculous price point either and a sane business model. Which is more akin to the NES/SNES/N64/GCN era. 

It's low-end. It's mobile. It's portable.
And it's okay at being that, because outside of the PC space, no one else really is.

Soundwave said:

All I'm saying though is going by Steam's own hardware rankings, most of the top GPUs on Steam are indeed 6-8GB cards. On top of that you have the XBox Series S which virtually every major game is still supporting, even things like GTA6, so that is a max of 8GB RAM total (for VRAM and anything else). Developers are going to have to make sure their games work on that much RAM. 

Those 6-8GB cards are still better than the consoles. That's all I am saying.

And 6-8GB isn't the start or end of the memory available on PC... Because again, data gets streamed from System memory extremely rapidly.

There is a very good reason why the PC uses a hierarchy of memory pools ranging from slowest+largest to fastest+smallest. - It's not unheard of for PC games to fill up the memory buffer on the GPU and have another 8GB+ waiting to be streamed in on a per-needs basis... In-fact, that's what they have literally been doing for the last 40 years.

PC is a memory rich environment, consoles are not.

Soundwave said:

Them's just the facts. Ain't no one out here trying to make a $150-$300 million dollar game for 1% of the market that has 40 series cards (which sold poorly, looks like the COVID surge for PC GPUs and Crypto bros that were buying those higher end cards have started to "nope" out). A 3050 is plenty to run any kind of game that would bankrupt any studio if it doesn't sell big, the tech stopped being the bottleneck ages ago. 

Again.. And I provided evidence for this previously, the majority of PC's exceed the console hardware specifications. PC can access higher settings, it doesn't actually need games designed strictly for the hardware when every single game released looks and runs far better than the console release.

It's like comparing DVD to Blu-Ray, it's the same movie, but DVD looks poor by comparison next to a Blu-Ray.

Soundwave said:

Like I've said many times "tech bros" are a tiny niche audience that don't even show up most of the time for "graphics showcase!" games or they are showing up but the number of them are pathetically small. Looking at the sales of games like Senua's Saga HB2, Immortals Aveum, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Alan Wake II, etc. etc. these games are not bringing in big audiences at all. 

Majority of PC's beat the consoles, majority of PC's have visuals that beat the consoles.

Those are the facts and I have provided evidence for that.

Stop trying to argue against something you can't argue against. Facts are facts buddy, you do need to come to terms with that instead of trying to shift the goal post which you are notorious for doing.


Yea its hilarious that he keeps on telling us no cares for graphics but the main selling point of switch 2 is hardware being more powerful.  If your statics are right  it differently shows that people still value powerful hardware.

Keep in mind that switch 2 releases in mid 2025 and 2  after it's unfortunately gonna be extremely dated.

Last edited by zeldaring - on 09 June 2024

Soundwave said:
Conina said:

IF the Switch 2 gets 12 GB Unified RAM, it will need some of that for the OS and some for the non-graphic parts of a game. Don't expect more than 8 GB usable for graphics.

Already more than 60% of the gaming PCs have 8 GB VRAM and above. Until the Switch 2 launches, this percentage will grow further.

Source for that number. The top 8 GPUs on Steam are mostly all lower end GPUs that generally ship with 6-8GB of RAM. In order it's the RTX 3060, GTX 1650, 3060 Ti, RTX 2060, 3070, GTX 1060, Laptop 3060, RTX 3050 ... that's your top 8, most of those are shipping with 6GB-8GB. 

Fact of the matter is most developers are going to be stuck supporting the XBox Series S for the rest off the generation no matter what, so 8GB of VRAM is going to have to do for the majority of games (things like GTAVI included). 

All those cards have 2x to 3x the memory bandwidth, assuming the S2 hits the max.

6 gb at 224 gb/s is going to smoke 8 gb at 112 gb/s.  



i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

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Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

Source for that number. The top 8 GPUs on Steam are mostly all lower end GPUs that generally ship with 6-8GB of RAM. In order it's the RTX 3060, GTX 1650, 3060 Ti, RTX 2060, 3070, GTX 1060, Laptop 3060, RTX 3050 ... that's your top 8, most of those are shipping with 6GB-8GB. 

Fact of the matter is most developers are going to be stuck supporting the XBox Series S for the rest off the generation no matter what, so 8GB of VRAM is going to have to do for the majority of games (things like GTAVI included). 

All those cards have 2x to 3x the memory bandwidth, assuming the S2 hits the max.

6 gb at 224 gb/s is going to smoke 8 gb at 112 gb/s.  

Even this isn't true, a 2050 runs basically most modern games and it has a whopping 4GB @96GB/sec. The amount of RAM (4GB) is the bigger bottleneck than the bandwidth. 

The Switch 2 has higher bandwidth RAM and a good deal more than that. Switch 2 has more than 8GB too, unless anyone thinks Nintendo is using 4GB for the OS, which is nonsensical since the Switch 1 only uses like 750MB as is. It's more likely the Switch 2 has 10-11GB for games available to it which is a healthy upgrade on the XBox Series S. 

The bottom line is developers still have to keep in the XBox Series S in mind for basically any game, we're seeing zero evidence that games are skipping the Series S to begin with even with all the most recent game announcements, Metal Gear Solid Delta? XBox Series S. GTA6? XBox Series S. Senua's Saga? Runs on XBox Series S. 

Comparing them directly like that is a misnomer anyway, never in any previous generation maybe with the exception of Switch 1 has portable consoles been able to run the same games more or less as the home consoles. If back in the day a freaking Game Boy was basically running the same version of Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat as the Super NES/Genesis or DS was running PS3/360 games even at a lower spec setting, it would've turned the entire console generation upside down. That hasn't been something that's really been a widely available option to consumers, but it's changing now. 

The conclusion most people would come to in that situation would not be "boy, Game Boy or DS are pathetic". It would be more like "holy shit, the Game Boy or DS is running some/most of these big ticket 3rd party releases that previously were only on consoles or PCs". 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 10 June 2024

Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

All those cards have 2x to 3x the memory bandwidth, assuming the S2 hits the max.

6 gb at 224 gb/s is going to smoke 8 gb at 112 gb/s.  

Even this isn't true, a 2050 runs basically all modern games and it has a whopping 4GB @96GB/sec. 

The Switch 2 has higher bandwidth RAM and a good deal more than that. 

The bottom line is developers still have to keep in the XBox Series S in mind for basically any game, we're seeing zero evidence that games are skipping the Series S to begin with even with all the most recent game announcements, Metal Gear Solid Delta? XBox Series S. GTA6? XBox Series S. Senua's Saga? Runs on XBox Series S. 

Comparing them directly like that is a misnomer anyway, never in any previous generation maybe with the exception of Switch 1 has portable consoles been able to run the same games more or less as the home consoles. If back in the day a freaking Game Boy was basically running the same version of Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat as the Super NES/Genesis or DS was running PS3/360 games even at a lower spec setting, it would've turned the entire console generation upside down. I guess there was the Turbo Express, but that brand never was relevant globally to begin with, but that was an idea many years ahead of its time. 

The conclusion most people would come to in that situation would not be "boy, Game Boy or DS are pathetic". It would be more like "holy shit, the Game Boy or DS is running some/most of these big ticket 3rd party releases that previously were only on consoles or PCs". 

2050 isn't in the list of gpus being discussed.

Yet another goal post shift by you.

In the list is a 2060 at 336 gb/s, 3x faster than the max for the S2.  

6 gb at 336 gb/s is going to smoke 8 gb at 112 gb/s. 

Like Perma already stated, you tend to ignore facts.  

Edit

First card you listed was a 3060, which has 360 gb/s, over 300% faster than the max S2.  

Facts are facts.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 10 June 2024

i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

Even this isn't true, a 2050 runs basically all modern games and it has a whopping 4GB @96GB/sec. 

The Switch 2 has higher bandwidth RAM and a good deal more than that. 

The bottom line is developers still have to keep in the XBox Series S in mind for basically any game, we're seeing zero evidence that games are skipping the Series S to begin with even with all the most recent game announcements, Metal Gear Solid Delta? XBox Series S. GTA6? XBox Series S. Senua's Saga? Runs on XBox Series S. 

Comparing them directly like that is a misnomer anyway, never in any previous generation maybe with the exception of Switch 1 has portable consoles been able to run the same games more or less as the home consoles. If back in the day a freaking Game Boy was basically running the same version of Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat as the Super NES/Genesis or DS was running PS3/360 games even at a lower spec setting, it would've turned the entire console generation upside down. I guess there was the Turbo Express, but that brand never was relevant globally to begin with, but that was an idea many years ahead of its time. 

The conclusion most people would come to in that situation would not be "boy, Game Boy or DS are pathetic". It would be more like "holy shit, the Game Boy or DS is running some/most of these big ticket 3rd party releases that previously were only on consoles or PCs". 

2050 isn't in the list of gpus being discussed.

Yet another goal post shift by you.

Actually it is, my point was most of the top Steam GPUs are low end GPUs, the 2050 is in that category. You don't get to say "it doesn't count" because it disproves your point. The 2050 is a popular choice for a lot of gamers that don't want to spend a ton of money. 

Developers don't give a shit about showcasing the best tech for the sake of showcasing tech. They need to make sure their game runs on a very wide gamut of technology, the PC actually is accelerating that focus because PC games scale much further than consoles traditionally have. 

No developer out here is going "y'know I've spent $150 million making this game, now let me lock it off to a tiny audience of 40 series card owners". That's not a reality anywhere and won't be probably even in the next 5 years. 

Graphics enthusiasts like the type that watch Digital Foundry videos and all that shit are a tiny part of the actual market. You're not making big money targeting that audience solely and it's been shown again and again with multiple flops/underperforming games this gen that people don't give a shit about that. 



Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

All those cards have 2x to 3x the memory bandwidth, assuming the S2 hits the max.

6 gb at 224 gb/s is going to smoke 8 gb at 112 gb/s.  

Even this isn't true, a 2050 runs basically most modern games and it has a whopping 4GB @96GB/sec. The amount of RAM (4GB) is the bigger bottleneck than the bandwidth. 

The Switch 2 has higher bandwidth RAM and a good deal more than that. Switch 2 has more than 8GB too, unless anyone thinks Nintendo is using 4GB for the OS, which is nonsensical since the Switch 1 only uses like 750MB as is. It's more likely the Switch 2 has 10-11GB for games available to it which is a healthy upgrade on the XBox Series S. 

The bottom line is developers still have to keep in the XBox Series S in mind for basically any game, we're seeing zero evidence that games are skipping the Series S to begin with even with all the most recent game announcements, Metal Gear Solid Delta? XBox Series S. GTA6? XBox Series S. Senua's Saga? Runs on XBox Series S. 

Comparing them directly like that is a misnomer anyway, never in any previous generation maybe with the exception of Switch 1 has portable consoles been able to run the same games more or less as the home consoles. If back in the day a freaking Game Boy was basically running the same version of Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat as the Super NES/Genesis or DS was running PS3/360 games even at a lower spec setting, it would've turned the entire console generation upside down. That hasn't been something that's really been a widely available option to consumers, but it's changing now. 

The conclusion most people would come to in that situation would not be "boy, Game Boy or DS are pathetic". It would be more like "holy shit, the Game Boy or DS is running some/most of these big ticket 3rd party releases that previously were only on consoles or PCs". 

I think the handheld crowd is different crowd I mean switch was pathetic compares to ps4 but still beat it in sales, and gameboy was pathetic compared to super nes but still destroyed in sales. The handheld market is very big with casuals/kids that just want something to play on the go.



zeldaring said:
Soundwave said:

Even this isn't true, a 2050 runs basically most modern games and it has a whopping 4GB @96GB/sec. The amount of RAM (4GB) is the bigger bottleneck than the bandwidth. 

The Switch 2 has higher bandwidth RAM and a good deal more than that. Switch 2 has more than 8GB too, unless anyone thinks Nintendo is using 4GB for the OS, which is nonsensical since the Switch 1 only uses like 750MB as is. It's more likely the Switch 2 has 10-11GB for games available to it which is a healthy upgrade on the XBox Series S. 

The bottom line is developers still have to keep in the XBox Series S in mind for basically any game, we're seeing zero evidence that games are skipping the Series S to begin with even with all the most recent game announcements, Metal Gear Solid Delta? XBox Series S. GTA6? XBox Series S. Senua's Saga? Runs on XBox Series S. 

Comparing them directly like that is a misnomer anyway, never in any previous generation maybe with the exception of Switch 1 has portable consoles been able to run the same games more or less as the home consoles. If back in the day a freaking Game Boy was basically running the same version of Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat as the Super NES/Genesis or DS was running PS3/360 games even at a lower spec setting, it would've turned the entire console generation upside down. That hasn't been something that's really been a widely available option to consumers, but it's changing now. 

The conclusion most people would come to in that situation would not be "boy, Game Boy or DS are pathetic". It would be more like "holy shit, the Game Boy or DS is running some/most of these big ticket 3rd party releases that previously were only on consoles or PCs". 

I think the handheld crowd is different crowd I mean switch was pathetic compares to ps4 but still beat it in sales, and gameboy was pathetic compared to super nes but still destroyed in sales. The handheld market is very big with casuals that just want something to play on the go.

There's nothing "pathetic" about the "handheld crowd", but you love to throw in bullshit like that into your arguments. Only tech nerds think that way and poeple like that are a small minority of the market that talk a lot on message boards and then don't back up their bullshit by actually showing up to buy "tech showcase" games. 

Y'all talk a big game, but you don't show up for shit. 

If I'm a publisher I can't rely on no-shows like that, I have to make a game that supports a wide variety of hardware these days, it's the only reasonable way to make money when my budgets are going up by double, triple, etc. I'm not passing on like say the XBox Series S just to appease that lame duck audience.